Feeling Valued with Don Barden

george grombacher 0:01
Dunbarton is a global sales and behavioral economics thought leader. He is the managing partner of the perfect plan. Don excited to have you on.

Don Barden 0:10
Hey, George, thank you. Hey, listen, I really appreciate what you’re doing. I’ve listened to all of your, your podcasts and interviews and you’re helping a lot of people. And one thing I know about your work is very few people probably get it to say thank you to you, but they all mean it. So I’m just wanting to say thank you to you, for all the people out here. Never have a chance. So thanks for the work you’re doing, man. It’s great stuff.

george grombacher 0:28
Well, I appreciate it. You’re welcome. So tell us a little about your personal life more about your work, why you do what you do. I’m

Don Barden 0:36
always tell people, it’s somewhere between the Jason Bourne movies and Forrest Gump. If you took Jason Bourne and Forrest Gump and you slam them together, that’s my life. But it’s a little bit more on the Forrest Gump side. Ironically, you know, right place, right time, pretty bright, but something silly going on, we got to figure it out. But every once awhile, it gets exciting. So I appreciate it. I’m a behavioral economist, I’m a professor. I spent about 25 years on Wall Street working for Wall Street based firms flew all over the world, I was on international teams. And I got to work with the best and the brightest. And I was smart enough to know that I wasn’t that smart. And so I started to ask him a lot of questions like What is it these people do differently? And we’ve been able to turn it in and did some academic work. And I’m really proud of it and has been around the world a few times. So we really look at why people make the decisions they do, and how we can help businesses grow. Because if you’re not growing, you’re just dead. And there’s a lot of business out there and they don’t want to grow ironically, yes, weird. They just want a job. You know, they just want to kind of work, not work for somebody else, control their destiny, they just want to putter around. Nothing wrong with that, that’s great. But if somebody is real entrepreneur, and somebody who really wants to do something and grow, then they’re going to look for capabilities. And then we look forward with courage. And what we do is say if you’ve got the courage, here’s some studies. Here’s some work that we’ve seen. Here’s some very bold questions that we ask that might be different than what you’re used to. And I think we have a chance like you to help a lot of people out and help them grow and help them in a kind way get out of their own way.

george grombacher 2:15
I love it. How’d you figure out the Jason Bourne meets Forrest Gump? Just

Don Barden 2:19
the years of looking at it going, you know, my life? That’s just me. Yeah, I want to move. You know, I Oh, that’s me. Jason Bourne is up and easy. Forrest Gump ago. Yeah, I’ve done that, too. So but that’s the best way I

george grombacher 2:30
can describe it. That’s also me. I think that that’s awesome.

Don Barden 2:34
It’s pretty cool.

george grombacher 2:35
So the work you’re doing, obviously, touches a lot of different aspects, all different kinds of people. What, what’s sort of on the cutting edge for you right now? Or what are you most excited about?

Don Barden 2:48
Oh, thank you for asking. I’m really excited about some more of this coming out. Soon. I’ve been working on this theory in my head for about 10 years now. And I was able to prove it. And I went to a lot of academia. It’s not one of those guys. I’m an academic guy who’s not academia. I don’t like those people. But anyway, they go to write papers and tell you how they predicted it a few years ago, but never gonna find the prediction. Right? So I’m a I’m a forward behavior economist. So I look and say, I really want to know why people make decisions I do. I really want to know why consumers buy things. I want to ask questions about trends and things that we see this unique because economics is just a reflection of humans. That is the art reflects life or life reflect art, economics reflects us and what our hopes and desires are. So a few years ago, I had this idea. And I’ve been working on it and a doctoral level, we can’t be international university. And we’ve been focusing on a few ideas that I had. And we were able to prove it. To be frank with you. And my newest theory, which I’m excited about is called Here Come the Girls. And basically, I’ve got women taking over all of global leadership between the year 2028 and 2032. And by global leadership, I mean, everything from the local Delhi to Parliament, I mean, everything is gonna be dominated and run by women. And so the question was, if we see this trend going, how can we prove it, but we prove it, it’s just math. You know, it literally is just math. It’s time. And we can already see it. Like right now, there’s no more young girls in undergrad school than there are guys. It went from 5% Women in medical and dental schools to now 60% You know, women. So you look at boardrooms, you’re seeing things starting to shift and change. So went back and said, you know, the economy doesn’t care about political political monitor. It just does. The economy doesn’t care about diversity, because it’s gonna go to the place that, you know, is the most efficient and Well, Ron. So when you start looking at as to take all the stuff you see the news out of the equation, and you say, what’s the truth? Well, truth lies in mathematics and the numbers. So we were able to look back at the population Should curve, combine it with everything from the birth control pill, which gave women freedom in their careers to education, access to education, changing social contract. And we were absolutely able to prove that the time has come and women are about to take over the vast, vast majority of leadership. But then the obvious question comes up. Okay. I’m a guy, I really like being a guy, I’ve got to read adult sons, I love being a boy, dad, you know, I’m very proud men, and I love women, I’m very pro women. But yeah, looking at and say, Okay, if this change occurs in economics, is it a positive change, or neutral or negative, and we were able to go back and look at it and say, not only is it positive is exponential, that I believe that when this occurs, we’re going to see such a boost in our economic reality, that we’re going to see minimum 3x growth in the economy worldwide, because women really are better leaders, women really are better at connecting with the consumer. And when you look at the entire model, it’s just the time has come. And now we know what women do differently. We know why women are great leaders, we’ve done 700 And something hours of interviews of female leaders around the world. And it’s amazing how consistent they are. And they’re not talking to each other, they don’t sit around and have a playbook or they’re passing around. They just do it. And it’s something that’s a beautiful, beautiful thing. So in the next few years, we’re gonna see a big shift in the economy, we’re gonna see a big shift in social construct, and it’s going to be a beautiful thing, man, it is going to be great. But the best thing about it, I’m happy to explore wherever you want to go with a conversation. But the best thing about it is, the secret to what women do to be better leaders is not a girl thing, which is something girls do, which means guys going to be trained. So not only is there gonna be an exponential positive hit in the economy coming up, but the consumer, the workplace, employee, families, everybody’s gonna be better off. But it’s not Amazonian. Once men figure this out, and they start doing it, we’re gonna see another kicker, go. So I think we’re on the verge of a monster, a shift that might be equal to the industrial revolution, but have a 10x type response to it. So that’s what I’m excited about. Now, here come the girls, it’s

george grombacher 7:18
a good reason to be excited. So let’s just dig into what those things are that they do differently that is learnable transferable? Sure. Well, I

Don Barden 7:26
tell you, it’s real simple. And every guy out there knows that girls are better, smarter and faster, right? We get that girls can think critically, every dude on the planet will know might not admit it in public, but they know it. Okay? So we look at this and say, Okay, well, how does a guy approach a problem I can business or in leadership? Most guys, when employee comes out and says, Hey, we got this problem. It could be supply chain, it could be sales, it could be anything. Most of the guys in leadership will just say, Okay, let’s fix it. They roll their sleeves, and they jump in and they fix it, and in most cases is very dictatorial. And they show the person, you know how to do it their way. In other words, the male leaders way they fix things, guys fix stuff. That’s what we do. We’re real good at it. But we’re seeing this new economy come out. And we got to ask ourselves, wait a minute, how come men have been the dominant gender? How come in business and leadership and any type of patriarchal system? Why have men dominated? It’s an easy answer. It’s called Red muscle mass. You know, I’m better at cutting down a tree than most women are. I’m better at fighting a saber toothed Tiger than women are not very good at it. But all the girls got to do is run faster than me, right? Although you still have the thing down, I’m gonna die, but it’s gonna you know, I’ll do it. But read muscle mass genetic development causes us to dig oil wells and build bridges and do things better, faster and more efficiently. Prominence that’s not needed anymore, not in the way that it was all for the skilled trades, somebody skilled trades are gonna be the next big boom, but we look at it and go, Okay, well, we have automation, we have tools, we have things right now that can help us out. We don’t need that red muscle mass. So now all sudden, everything’s neutral. So the girls have a chance to rise up and if you’ll get the math behind it, you go, okay, that’s really cool. guys know how to fix things. We know how to build things. We know how to use our muscles. But how does a woman approach the same problem? And this is what we learn. Where’s the guy just jumps in and says, Okay, let’s fix it. Okay, a woman has three steps that she does to fix it. The first thing a female leader does is she always shows sympathy to the problem. In other words, she acknowledges Yeah, that’s a real problem. Like if a teammate comes up or an employee comes up and says, Hey, we’ve got these cargo ships stuck in the ports of LA, and we can’t get them off because there’s some issue with customs and there’s a threat of a union strike and there’s all this mess. What a female leader will do is acknowledge the problem and be sympathetic about the problem, not the person, but she’ll acknowledge the problem first, which gives credibility to the person that Hey, dude, yeah, I get it. That’s the real problem. Then they say One thing she does before she fixes it is she shows empathy to the person. So look at that person and say, Hey, how does this affect you? How does it make you feel? How do you how do you? How are you embracing? And what’s your relationship with this? I’m so so sorry. Because that’s not your fault. That’s not your problem. So she shows sympathy to the problem, then she shows empathy to the person, then this is where the magic happens, then what she does is she leans in, and we hear women describe it two different ways. Some, I wouldn’t call it meeting in the grave. Others call it meeting them halfway. But what they do is they lean into the person who brought in the problem. And then they ask the most beautiful question. They say, what would you do? If you had a magic wand? What would you do to fix this? And what happens is the person on our team is now empowered. And they can sit there and say, Oh, well, here’s what I would do, boom, boom, boom, pull this lever, Do this, do that. And then most female leaders will look at it, if they’re correct. It’s the person’s idea was good. And say, Okay, go do that. In other words, I don’t have to tell you what to do, I can give you permission to go do it, you have the commitment, you have the courage, you have the capabilities, to go out there and do it go be you in what she’s doing, by showing sympathy to problem, empathy to the person and then meeting them in the middle, so the person can answer it, she’s creating such a level of empowerment, that the next time that there is a problem, that team member doesn’t come to her doesn’t bog her down, they know they have permission to fix it, and to do what they feel is right. Whereas a typical male leader comes in and goes, Okay, we’re gonna fix it does not show sympathy, that problem does not show empathy, the person just jumps to fix it. And in doing so, historically, as guys, we’ve never been able to give that person potential to be the best they can be is there. But if you keep it locked up by saying, You come to me, and I’ll show you how to fix it, they never get to explore that. So what happens in a female business is she’s able to take her unique ability now, and go back and figure out well, while they’re fixing my problems, because I got a great team who can handle this, I can think about global sales, I can think about the next product initiative, I can think about creative things. So it makes their team be enormously efficient, and grow at exponential rates. But but here’s the cool thing, George, and I’ll shut up. This is my favorite thing. So we went in, we asked the two biggest consumer groups out there three, technically, I guess, we went to all their employees and said, male and female, and said, What is it that makes this place special to work? Why do you choose to work here? So we asked other employees this, we asked the same question of consumers, male and female, and we said well look like I’m an iPhone guy, right? Why is it that you buy iPhone over Android? Yeah. What is it about this? Why do you buy Coca Cola over Pepsi, Budweiser over medalla? What is it? What makes you decide to consume this product? They gave us three answers. Okay, guess what? Same three answers. Employees give a while they work there. And then we’re like, oh, well, they had for study women. We went to women as a whole. And said, Forget about buying stuff. Forget about working where you were, what do you want as a woman? And they gave us three things. Creepy, the exact same three things. Okay. So consumers, male and female, employees, male and female, and women as a whole, when we ask them what they want. I always tell people, you never have to explain or apologize for what you want. You just want it right, tell me what you want. The three things that every single person in that group said is the first thing I want from an employer from a product, or the first thing I want as a woman is to be seen, I just want to know that you see me, then the second thing I want is to know that you hear me as a consumer, I want to know that, that my opinion means something. So I want you to see me, and I want you to hear me. But most importantly, I want you to understand me. And we were like wow, that’s amazingly consistent, right? You want to be seen, heard and understood. Every consumer says, I want to be seen by this company. I want to be heard by the company. And I want them to understand what my needs are every employee II, which is kind of interesting for people in the United States. The average American worker right now is 38 years old, and changes jobs once every three years. So when they change jobs, what are you looking for? I want to be seen, I want to be heard. I want to be understood. When we ask women What do you want as a woman just I don’t know. I’m not genetically What do you want is a woman that are gonna say, I want to be seen, I want to be heard and I want to be understood. And we’re like, holy cow. What does that mean to be seen, heard and understood? And I’m tell you the answer is beautiful. It means that they’re valued. So if a consumer feels seen, heard and understood, they feel valued. If an employee feels seen, heard and understood, they feel valued. A woman wants to be valued because she has seen heard and understood not talked down to she Want started shot shot? So think about this, George, they want to be seen, heard and understood, so they can be valued. Now go back to what we said about female leaders, what do they do? They show sympathy to the problem, I see the problems, they show empathy to the person, I hear you. And then they say, What would you do they meet them in the middle, I understand you. Therefore, I value you and you have permission to go out and be the best person you can be here. Now there are gonna be ups and downs, there’s gonna be screw ups are gonna be things where my wisdom has to step in. Because of 40 years of experience, right now, they’re all of that, but I trust you, I see you, I hear you, I understand you. Therefore I value you think about a corporate team, or think about in a consumer base, or think about 51% of our population, that they say that I miraculously feel seen, heard and understood, therefore, I feel valued. And I can consume this product over here, run by a woman, because she sees me hears me understands me, therefore, she values me, I can go work for this woman and work for this culture, because I feel seen, heard, understood and valued, or me as a woman, the biggest consumer group in the history of mankind says, Wait a minute, I just want to be seen, heard and understood. So I know that you valued me.

Not rocket science, right? Yet these females in leadership have been doing this the whole time. And it’s right in front of us. So we look at this, and then you support it with mathematics, that this wave of women with entrepreneurial and corporate type experience, their time has come. Because you can look at leadership and you can find these statistical outliers, these unicorns that pop up are these people that come up with a killer or once in a lifetime product, and it’s great not knocking them, but that’s not real world, take them out and just look at the core of what makes the Earth Spin, you know, on its axis, what is it that makes our economy go, and you’re gonna see it’s the mom pops from the corporate structures and things like that. And if you can say, wait a minute, the consumer, the buyer of your product, your employees, and 51% of the population all want the same thing. And here comes this wave of women into leadership, which will begin to peak and flip over the 50% mark in 2028. By 2032, it’d be the vast, vast majority, they are delivering on that. Dude, that is an economic nirvana. That is when you look at it, and you go, Holy crap, the world is about to change. And then once we get guys figuring it out, that you still need to be a dude, you know, you’re there’s nothing, you can’t hide the red muscle mass, you can’t hide the genetic wiring of your brain. But man, what if you took a breath as a guy and said, in my leadership style, I want to make sure that the people I’m leading are seen that they’re hurt, and they’re understood, I want to take a breath and be sympathetic to their problems, be empathetic to them as an individual, I want to meet them in the middle, because selfishly, that frees up my time. So I can go do my own unique ability. Like God, when we get both boys and girls doing this, George is going to be a, it’s going to be a thing. So I think from economics, I can tell you that there’s gonna be a massive, massive increase in economic output and consumption, which is nirvana. That’s what we want, as economists have around 2028. So the question is, is what I tell all these large employers and clients if anybody wants to reach out? The question is, do you believe in luck, and you just want to hope that luckily, when 2028 happens, you’re in the right place at the right time, you can take advantage of it. What I tell people all the time is I absolutely believe in luck. But luck favors the prepared. So what are you doing to be prepared? What are you doing to say that in 2028, I’ve got a three and a half year run, no, man, I am going to be so ready, that when this economy takes off, my production skills gonna be ready, my team is going to be ready, our culture is going to be ready. Everything that we’ve got is in place. Now, does that mean you need to go out there and only hire women? No, you need to hire the right people. But the mathematics are going to take care of themselves. You know, women are going to be the right people, they already are the right people, they can help boost the economy in the world and into another level. And then for the first time, the anomaly is going to flip over and women are gonna be dragging them in and saying, Hey, guys, come on, wake up. Let’s be sympathetic, let’s be empathetic. Let’s help our employees and meet him in the middle. Let’s do some things that are purposeful, that says that we’re going to see that we’re going to hear them, we’re going to understand them, therefore we value them. And then we’re going to sit back and smile, because the world’s about to get really, really good. And I’m excited about that. I mean, he’s just something that we’ve been working on for 10 years. We put the past three years of our lives into this. The doctorial paper will publish sometime this month and by the end of the month, hopefully at least first of June at the end. Is the commercial book here come, the girls will be out. And we got some high hopes that it’s going to affect and help a lot of people. But most importantly, people will be prepared. And they won’t be blindsided, because, and I’ll shut up and tell you this. But when I teach economics, I always tell people to go back and study Darwin. And they look at me go, What are you talking about us biology? And I’m like, No, I don’t think so. I believe the greatest economist of all time was Charles Darwin. If you take his biological theories of evolution and natural selection, and you apply it to the economy works like a charm, doesn’t work in biology. That’s sometimes not always sometimes. He was good. He was smart guy. But I think we missed the boat, I think we needed to apply him to economics. And if you do, oh, my god, what is happening, natural selection, you know, the rise of women in leadership, the mathematical function that proves that the evolution has been taken care of over time, the convenience and convergence of a service based economy, the know, or the lack of need, for as much red muscle mass as we’ve had in the past, and the need for advanced critical thinking, which women are just better at. So when all this stuff hits at the same time, and the math can support it, what are you doing to be prepared? And I think that’s the big question of the next few years, is do you want your business in the long run, to grow at exponential rates, or at least have a valve that you can turn up and down at will? If you do, then it’s time to get prepared and be ready, because the economy is about to show you so much favor? That is beyond what we’ve been able to comprehend. And actually measure in the past, I think this is gonna be the next industrial revolution.

george grombacher 21:44
That is a compelling case, Don, I love it. I’m excited to dig into the research. And speaking of where can people learn more about you? How can

Don Barden 21:53
they want go to website Don barton.com. And I’m happy to do n var d n. What I tell people though, is the book that kind of put us on the map. It’s called the perfect plan. And we did this study about 20 years ago, it was another doctoral study where we wanted to know what the elite people in the world did differently in sales, marketing, the business, how they approach things. And the same way we use scientific methodology. We started yet we got it. So we can say in there, hey, here’s what these people do. Here’s what the best salespeople do. Here’s how all these things go, in most cases, stuff you’ve never heard before. But it structures, the obvious. If any of these listeners that are there today, send me a note on LinkedIn and say, Hey, are you enjoying the show, I’d love to get a copy of the book. I’ll send him a free copy of the book. And then once Here Come the Girls come out. We’ll give him a free copy of that, because there are listeners of your show. And again, I think you’re doing everything right. So Keep being you and I want to support you and always support your listeners. So anybody hit me up on LinkedIn, I’ll send them a free copy of the first book, which I think a lot of and as soon as Here Come the Girls come out cinema free copy

george grombacher 22:58
that. Excellent. If you enjoyed as much as I did, shut down your appreciation. share today’s show with a friend who also appreciates good ideas go to Don barton.com do n var D n.com. And check out everything that Don’s been working on Get your copy of the perfect plan by shooting down a message on Linked in and as soon as Here Come the Girls is live and in the world. I’m sure we’ll have Dawn back on to dig a little bit deeper into all of that being your free digital copy of that as well.

Don Barden 23:29
Thanks get done it thanks very good, man. Keep it up.

george grombacher 23:33
Till next time. Remember, do your part by doing your best

george grombacher 16:00
So if I want my iPhone, and my Tesla and my Bitcoin to work, we need to get the metal out of the ground.

Pierre Leveille 16:07
Absolutely. Without it, we cannot do it.

george grombacher 16:13
Why? Why is there a Why has production been going down.

Pierre Leveille 16:21
Because the large mines that are producing most of the copper in the world, the grades are going down slowly they’re going there, they’re arriving near the end of life. So and of life of mines in general means less production. And in the past, at least 15 years, the exploration expenditure for copper were pretty low, because the price of copper was low. And when the price is low, companies are tending to not invest more so much in exploration, which is what we see today. It’s it’s, it’s not the way to look at it. Because nobody 15 years ago was able to predict that there would be a so massive shortage, or it’s so massive demand coming. But in the past five years, or let’s say since the since 10 years, we have seen that more and more coming. And then the by the time you react start exploring and there’s more money than then ever that is putting in put it in expression at the moment for copper at least. And what we see is that the it takes time, it could take up to 2025 years between the time you find a deposit that it gets in production. So but but the year the time is counted. So it’s it’s very important to so you will see company reopening old mines, what it will push also, which is not bad, it will force to two, it will force to find a it will force to find ways of recalibrating customer, you know the metals, that will be more and more important.

george grombacher 18:07
So finding, okay, so for lack of a better term recycling metals that are just sitting around somewhere extremely important. Yeah. And then going and going back to historic minds that maybe for lack of technology, or just lack of will or reasons, but maybe now because there’s such a demand, there’s an appetite to go back to those.

Pierre Leveille 18:33
Yes, but there will be a lot of failures into that for many reasons. But the ones that will be in that will resume mining it’s just going to be a short term temporary solution. No it’s it’s not going to be you need to find deposit that will that will operate 50 years you know at least it’s 25 to 50 years at least and an old mind that you do in production in general it’s less than 10 years.

george grombacher 19:03
Got it. Oh there we go. Up here. People are ready for your difference making tip What do you have for them

Pierre Leveille 19:14
You mean an investment or

george grombacher 19:17
whatever you’re into, you’ve got so much life experience with raising a family and doing business all over the world and having your kids go to school in Africa so a tip on copper or whatever you’re into.

Pierre Leveille 19:34
But there’s two things I like to see and I was telling my children many times and I always said you know don’t focus on what will bring you specifically money don’t think of Getting Rich. Think of doing what you what you like, what you feel your your your your your, you know you have been born to do so use your most you skills, do what you like, do what you wet well, and good things will happen to you. And I can see them grow in their life. And I can tell you that this is what happens. And sometimes you have setback like I had recently. But if we do things properly, if we do things that we like, and we liked that project, we were very passionate about that project, not only me, all my team, and if we do things properly, if we do things correctly, good things will happen. And we will probably get the project back had to go forward or we will find another big project that will be the launch of a new era. So that’s my most important tip in life. Do what you like, do it with your best scale and do it well and good things will happen.

george grombacher 20:49
Pierre Leveille 21:03
Thank you. I was happy to be with you to today.

george grombacher 21:06
Damn, tell us the websites and where where people can connect and find you.

Pierre Leveille 21:13
The it’s Deep South resources.com. So pretty simple.

george grombacher 21:18
Perfect. Well, if you enjoyed this as much as I did show up here your appreciation and share today’s show with a friend who also appreciate good ideas, go to deep south resources, calm and learn all about what they’re working on and track their progress.

Pierre Leveille 21:32
Thanks. Thanks, have a nice day.

george grombacher 21:36
And until next time, keep fighting the good fight. We’re all in this together.