How to Declutter with Star Hansen

george grombacher 0:02
Sir Hanson is a certified professional organizer and clutter whisperer. She’s on a mission to banish our personal clutter monster. She’s the author of why the EFF Am I still not organized? Welcome to show star.

Star Hansen 0:16
So good to be here with you. I can’t wait for our conversation.

george grombacher 0:20
Yeah, excited to have you on. Tell us a little about your personal lives more about your work, why you do what you do.

Star Hansen 0:26
One of the things people ask me a lot is What do you collect? If you’re an organizer? Well, I love filling my spaces with plants, anything like living so plants and gemstones. And I’m a bit of a nomadic soul. So I love to travel live in different places, I’ve had a beautiful collection of gorgeous places that I’ve lived all over. And it’s just really a treat, I just I feel like the more that we surround ourselves with beauty and things that feel good to us the better quality of life we experience. And when I started this business 20 years ago, I was what they call a generalist, right? When you start organizing, you organize everything you work with people who hoard and you work with people who are, you know, collectors, and you work with people who just want it to be beautiful. But I saw really quickly that there was something bigger going on, I was like, wow, wait a second. So these are the people that I work with are amazing, super successful top of game, doing everything right, like winning in every way you could want to. But they feel like total failures for not being able to get the clutter under control. Because this isn’t something that they’ve been struggling with for six months or a year. This is something that they’ve been dealing with for often decades. And I was noticing that these people who had the skills and capabilities were still being, you know, very stymied in this part of their life. And so what my business went from was home organizing into really understanding and helping people figure out why they can’t get organized no matter what they try, and how the clutter is actually oftentimes helping them and how it’s really proof of our genius, not proof of our defects.

george grombacher 2:10
That’s a that’s that’s a pretty good shift.

Star Hansen 2:15
It is it is it’s unexpected, because I think, you know, science says, oh, clutters bad, other so bad, you know, and it look, science doesn’t lie. Well, I hear you letter, science people. But also, there’s so much more going on in that like, yes, clutter makes us procrastinate or feel pain, you know, like feel pain and stress. And it adds to our cortisol and makes us choose worse foods. And yes, there’s so many things that science has proven. But I’m here to say that if you have recurring clutter, it is doing something for you, it is trying to help you in some way, it’s like a friend. Because when you have this recurring clutter that just keeps showing up, no matter how many times you organize it, or what boxes you buy, it is doing something for you. And once you figure out what it’s doing for you, then you can actually get that need met without the clutter. And that’s when your life starts to really elevate and transform because now instead of you masking this deeper need, you are actually getting that direct need met. And that is so powerful. And there are, you know, five primary ways that people use clutter to get their needs met, they use it as a communication. Think about when you want to hint to your wife that you want her to do something for you, you put it on the kitchen table, right? Because it’s like she’s gonna see it, and maybe she’ll do it. So we use it as a communication, we use it for creativity, we use it for inspiration in that way, we might also use it as protection kind of building a while of clutter around things we don’t want people to find, or using clutter to keep people away from us. We also use it for security. Now, if you grew up in an environment where say you were experiencing high levels of lack and scarcity, having a lot of stuff actually makes you feel quite empowered, and you feel safer. Because of it, it acts like this. You know, it’s fostering a sense of security and strength. And finally, we use it for connection. Like think about the things from someone who you love who’s passed away. Just having your aunt’s picture out makes you feel more connected to her. And if you’ve inherited things from when someone passed away, that can add up really quickly. Because when someone dies, depending on how they tie, everything feels important. And so these five ways are the ways that we connect and use our clutter to actually serve us. And right now we’re doing it unconsciously. And if we can start to do it consciously, if we can start to really get those needs met more consciously, you’re not going to need the clutter and the clutter is absolutely going to fall away. And it won’t feel as hard It won’t feel like you’re spinning your wheels in mud. It’s just going to feel so much more in the flow for you.

george grombacher 4:46
That that that all makes a lot of sense. clutter. How do you differentiate clutter, which I believe has a negative connotation. It’s just It’s stuff junk crap. I’ve collected it’s in my junk drawer. And when I fill up my junk drawer, it spills everywhere else versus these are trinkets or memorable things that make me think about family members or loved ones or an experience.

Star Hansen 5:12
Yeah, so it’s all just stuff. It’s all just physical objects. It’s just stuff. And it goes beyond physical objects. It’s the way we think about ourselves. It’s how we talk. It’s what we spend our time on. It’s what we watch and consume. It’s it’s everything. It’s just stuff. And yes, clutter has a negative connotation. It’s a buzzword, it’s the minute I say stuff you’re like, if I say clutter, you know what Lane I’m talking about. I’m talking about the stuff that makes us feel a little shame, a little uncomfortable, a little bit like, maybe we’re not measuring up. And that’s what we want to look at is like, how does it make you feel because I have had clients who have every single surface of their home covered, every wall is covered, every bookshelf is full, and they could not be happier. That’s not clutter. I don’t care if someone else walks in third party and says, Oh, my gosh, this is such a state, not to the owner, the owner loves it. So it really is more of a state of mind. And when I think about clutter, it’s it’s like this feeling of access, like what do you have that is not serving you, what do you have that’s not in alignment with your values, you can be a minimalist, and still have clutter. Clutter is not about volume, it’s about does this align with you your goals, your priorities, your family, the life that you’re living in the life that you’re moving into?

george grombacher 6:23
Well said letter equals excess. And oftentimes, it we think about it negatively, but it’s could be the canary in the coal mine, it’s given us evidence that something is missing in our lives,

Star Hansen 6:39
or it’s inviting a change, even like think about if you’re if you’re just at work and say you’re like I don’t have emotional clutter at work star, there’s no recurring clutter here. If you have a giant inbox, for example, that feels like it never goes down. And it’s just this perpetual pile that’s building for you. That tells me that you are either you’ve been given too much, and you’re kind of overflowing, and there’s nowhere for it to go. So it just lands there or you are expanding. And it’s time for you to either start a new project or take on a new role. Or, like there’s always and again, if we start to look at our clutter with a more positive lens, we can see the opportunity it presents, it is asking you to evolve your systems. I mean, look, we live in a time where technology is literally moving faster than we are, it just is. And it’s going to keep getting worse. And so we are living in this world where we have never had more on our plates. And our systems need to constantly evolve. When I started my business. 20 years ago, email was barely a thing, like just barely. And now we can’t live without it. We can’t live without our zoom and we can’t you know, it’s like so we are being given systems and processes that we don’t have processes for. So you have to constantly be evolving in your pragmatic ways, but also in our emotional psychological ways. Like who are you? Who are you becoming? The world is moving so fast, and our physical objects support our journey as individuals and souls? And that’s really important to delve into.

george grombacher 8:05
Yeah, it is. That’s, I find this to be super, super powerful and super exciting. Especially particularly in the context of what you just touched on, like by email inboxes now, it’s ballooned, hundreds of emails that demand my attention are asking for my attention. That that is a sign that I don’t have the system for processing, email or information. And

Star Hansen 8:36
it’s how much control do we want to let go of because there are email programs like Sanebox comes to mind right away, where it’ll just clear your inbox for you. Are you okay with those 100 emails, 200 emails going down to one and assuming that the computer has done the the right work? Like it’s a little scary to me, because I don’t necessarily want to give up control in that way. Because my work in many ways, because its purpose filled, feels very creative. And I understand that in some ways that can stop those of us who are entrepreneurs from growing. But I’m also I don’t want to leave the heart behind. I don’t want to become a machine that just operates with no thought or no heart. And so we have to decide each of us individually. How much do we want to automate? Do we want computers to do it for us, because that’s how it’s going right now, right? In some ways. It’s beautiful. Like when Gmail automatically filters out and separates your promotions that can be actually super helpful and keep you from being buried. But we have to decide what that looks like. And it’s very stressful for most humans, I know to release the control of managing this stuff, even though it will save you time. It will make you money. It will make your life a lot better and easier. But we also have to do it in a way that feels really good to us.

george grombacher 9:53
Is the lack of system and my clutter monster What clutter is giving me evidence that there’s some kind of a an existing underlying issue? Are those two things the same? Are those different? The related?

Star Hansen 10:11
I love the so I love this question. And I think it’s really interesting because I don’t know that I would phrase it as if you have an underlying issue. Again, that’s bringing clutter to a negative conversation, where there’s something wrong with you, you’ve missed it, you haven’t missed anything, you’re moving at a strong pace, and you are growing and receiving and taking in information all the time. And the build up is basically trying to slow you down and get you to pay attention. And so what we want to look at is two things. Where is the clutter? And what is the clutter? Now the where is important because the where tells you what area of your life is being affected by this or what area you know what chapter of your world we’re talking about, because every single room in your home represents a different area of your life. And this can be very different for people. But you know, the kitchen is the center of nourishment, it’s often the Center for connection communication. Office can often be our purpose, finances time. And so once you know where it is, that gives you a big idea about Okay, great, what are we talking about here? And then for the clutter? Like what is the clutter? And how is it showing up? Is it blocking you? Is it making you feel suffocated? Is it holding you back from something? Is it trying to get your attention, like once we start to, you know, for lack of a better word, like anthropomorphize our clutter, it’s, we really can start to see the patterns. And that’s what I’m looking for. When I come into your house. I’m looking for patterns. I’m not looking for patterns, and proof of your defects. I’m looking for patterns of your unconscious behavior every single day. That’s telling me what’s really going on in your life, your mind and the things that you’re creating in your world.

george grombacher 11:50
What a fascinating way to walk into a space and then observe.

Star Hansen 11:55
Thank you. Yeah, it’s it’s fun. It’s like I have I always say I’ve clutter X ray vision, I can know with a glance what’s going on in someone’s life just by looking at their spaces, which is so much fun. And also I don’t use it unless I’m asked. So you don’t have to be scared to have me in one’s home. But it’s but it definitely like I can tell like when I’ve when I’ve dated for example, I can walk into the house of a man that I’m dating and know if he’s emotionally available or not just by looking at his space. And it’s like, oh, yeah, this guy needs a little little time to bake here. So it’s it our stuff really does give us a way.

george grombacher 12:28
Yeah, yeah, there’s no doubt about it. So how do I know if I should be exploring this more? Ought everybody?

Star Hansen 12:39
So I mean, yes, I Yes. But who has time, right? Like, let’s just name that like, we’re you know, you have three kids, you’re running, you know, Mach seven. If you have clutter, that feels uncomfortable, that feels painful, that constantly pulls your attention, that feels negative, that makes you have ruminating thoughts, that’s when you want to pay attention. The other time when you can choose to pay attention is when you just keep seeing these sectors of clutter pop up over and over again, no matter how many times you’ve gotten a handle on it. And again, I’m not saying that that clutter is going to go away. I know people who will always have kitchen counter clutter. And it’s because it serves them, they need it to feel like they’re not living in an austere Museum, because they grew up in an austere Museum, and they don’t want to feel like they’re in that same environment. So it gives them a sense of like, relaxing and peace and you know, lived in, you know, vibe in their home. And so I what I want is I’m not saying I’m gonna come in and wipe all your clutter clear, because the truth is, you might say, I’m doubling down, I want that in that place. But I’m going to make it more beautiful now. Now I’m going to create a better system for it. You’re not living up against the Pinterest rules of having the most perfect house with a decanted pantry. I mean, that’s great if you want to do it. But for many of us, that’s not what we want. I don’t want to spend all weekend moving things from cardboard boxes and to glass containers. And that’s not how I want to, I want to go for a hike I want to go explore. So you get to choose how much time and energy you invest. But when when this clutter feels negative, or it feels like it’s holding us back. That’s when we want to pay attention.

george grombacher 14:16
That makes sense. You talked about beauty. Early on, you probably mentioned it a couple of times. And I feel like we all appreciate beauty, but aren’t necessarily intentional about it. And when I say we I mean me, I certainly appreciate beauty. And I also like this, I’m going to probably go too far off off topic here. But I also link it to I consider myself to be a human doing who’s working hard to become a human being. And I presented myself such a pragmatic practical person who tries to put too many systems in place. How do you think about beauty in the context of what I just said? Add, does that make any sense to you? Is there a question to respond to somewhere on there, you

Star Hansen 15:05
strike me as a very pragmatic person, like you said, you focus on systems. And that’s very, very normal. There’s some brain types that just really look at the systems and function. And then there’s other brain types who only want beauty. So for my beauty lovers, if you are struggling with getting organized, you might be best served by not focusing on the function, but instead starting to make the spaces pretty, like that room is not getting organized, because you hate how it looks, you might want to paint the wall, it’s you know, we want to do this differently. We don’t want to say that there’s one way of doing it but beautifying a space is one of the most important steps I have 10 steps for getting and staying organized. And it’s funny because most people think of organizing as two things, either the systems that you’re talking about, or purging, like getting rid of things. And other than that people are like, well, I did my organizing, I’m like no friend, you did to have 10 steps. So there’s a lot more going on. And one of the steps, one of the most important steps is to beautify to make your space really pretty now, for functional brain like yourself, that might seem very useless. Like, oh, doesn’t matter, I need to be organized like I need to get the systems dialed in. But having it look beautiful, and looking beautiful to me, is just making it so that you resonate with the space and you see yourself there. When I walk into my home, I see me here, I know that I’m home by the things that I have surrounding me. And people when they walk into their home into the sound, they always say, oh my gosh, I just feel so good in here, because I’m in vibrational harmony with myself within this space. And that’s all we’re looking for. I don’t care. You could have Star Wars on everything. You could have flowers everywhere, you could be a minimalist, like doesn’t matter. But it’s who are you? And how do you feel at home in your own space. And when we set up our systems, and then we beautify, or beautify in any order, really. You claim the space you allow yourself to be present, you allow yourself to say, I am going to leave the world of essential and start to go into the land of thriving and that’s what beautifying really does it allows us which is also why you see some people obsessing about beautifying their house and they’ll change their, you know, their look many, many times over because they’re trying to find that within themselves. And it’s this internal external game we have going on but beautifying is, it’s you saying I’m going to leave the world of survivalism and enter the world of thriving.

george grombacher 17:30
Powerful again, I love that move from essential to thriving. Do you have this? This is a human flourishing podcast. And that’s the first time I’ve ever heard that before. So I think that that’s awesome. And I get to try to connect, connect, connect the dots of what I’m hearing you say but are we start with the end in mind of how do I want to feel in this room or my house? How do I you know, what do I want it to be like to kind of walk me through that? Yeah,

Star Hansen 18:06
I love it. You’re just delving right into the steps. And I and I love it. So step one is set your intention. And I always ask people to answer three questions for every single room that they organize it generally it’s better if you kind of go more focused, what are the three to five activities you want to do in the space, and three to five is the sweet spot. Because if I let some people, you know, on their own account, they’re going to just choose 20 things that they want to do in a room and any particular room is going to be best served by you giving yourself less things to focus on. Right? So three to five things you’re going to do in the room. And then you want to ask yourself, How do I want the space to look? And how do I want the space to feel? And if you’re not a feelings person, then what you want to ask yourself instead is what do I want to experience? When I’m in the space? Throw in an experience peace of mind calm, clarity, focus? Do I want to feel uplifted? Like it’s you know, so you want to delve in? And those three questions. What do you want to do here? How do you want it to feel? And how do you want it to look? Those three questions become your roadmap. And I always help I have like a little handout, your listeners can get it if they want it organizing is easy.com. And that will tell them all the 10 steps and ask the three questions and I will have my you know, students print that out and they will hang it on the wall of the room that we’re organizing, so that when they get that anxiety or stress about should I keep this or not keep it you look at that list and you say, Does this item fit in with those intentions that I’ve set? And if it does, it can stay in? If it doesn’t, it’s got to go in that you know may go and be donated or thrown away or just move to another area of the house where that energy and intention is more aligned.

george grombacher 19:45
Awesome. real practical question. I do have this this item that it doesn’t necessarily fit that criteria that you just laid out. But I don’t know if I want to get rid of it or donate it. And I don’t just, I don’t just want to keep moving it from place to place and hold on to it for 10 years. And

Star Hansen 20:09
yeah, so there. One of the things that is not often discussed in the conversation of organizing are those objects that are a little funky, like when Marie Kondo came out, and it was like, Does it spark joy? It’s such a beautiful question. But my taxes don’t spark joy. Like no, but I can’t get rid of them. It just is what it is. There are many things like I, I lost my sister, and, and there are things that I have of hers, that bring me great joy, and things that I have of hers that make me feel absolute despair and grief. And I don’t get rid of them, because I’m not ready to get rid of them. And if someone came into my home and told me that, oh, it doesn’t spark joy, you gotta get rid of it. I would say you are emotionally and spiritually bypassing some of the work that my soul came to this planet to do. There are some things that we are meant to face in our lives. And it is 1,000%. Okay, if now is not the time, I have a box of videotapes, when I watched those videotapes, I am reminded of my childhood, and I feel regret and sadness and guilt and grief and shame. And I am not in a place where I have been ready to deal with that yet. So instead of just deleting, you know, throwing them all away and saying, No, thank you, I’ve digitized them. And I have literally set them aside so that I don’t have to see them until I’m ready. And if I leave this planet, and I’ve never dealt with it, it’s fine. But I don’t need to guilt myself every day for not being ready to face something that is severely emotional and intense and very healing and a bit traumatic. And, and this is an accelerated version. But this can be anything. If you feel intuitively like it is not the right time to get rid of something, no problem, like, what I would do is I would just like, box it up, label it very clearly on all four sides and tuck it away. Because most things that we don’t deal with are not going to hurt us in any way. But us coming up against them every single day. And then feeling shame about it does hurt us. So that item by hanging out and you know shitting all over you is hurting you but it just sitting in the closet and waiting for you to see if it’s the right time is not going to hurt you. And it’s going to give you the chance to be heard because a lot of us did not get our emotional needs met growing up. And so when we are so mean to ourselves and bully ourselves, we are not serving our highest selves and you deserve to be supported in every single way.

george grombacher 22:28
Well said. We’ll start thank you so much for coming on. Where can people learn more about you? Where can they get their copy of why the EFF Am I still not organized? Yes,

Star Hansen 22:38
it’s everywhere. It’s Amazon and audible and all the places but if your listeners want a free copy, they can go to star hanson.com forward slash podcast and my last name is h a n s e n star hanson.com forward slash podcast they can get it free download my book. There’s also a quiz on there. That’s the clutter monster quiz that will tell you what clutter monster is stopping you from getting organized. And then you’ll be on my site and I have about 1000 free things that you can download if you just want to start to explore because I do work one on one with people I do teach online classes, but you need to sometimes make sure that you feel really safe and this is a very emotional world to work in. So I give people as many free resources as humanly possible so that they can explore and see if I am a good fit for them to work with.

george grombacher 23:25
Love it. Well if you enjoyed this as much as I did show, start your appreciation and share today’s show with a friend who also appreciates good ideas go to star hanson.com as TARHANS s e n.com. Check out other great resources you can get a free copy of our book at Star hanson.com/podcast Take that clutter monster quiz. Find out which one you are how many different clutter monsters are there star, four of them

Star Hansen 23:52
there’s four or monsters lurking waiting for you?

george grombacher 23:58
Well, it’s first thing I’m going to do when I’m when we’re off all across. I’m going to figure out what clutter monster is mine. Anyway, go to star hanson.com. Check out all the great resources and engage with her and figure out how to bring a little bit more beauty into your life and go from there. Thanks Ken Starr, thank you. Till next time remember, do your part doing your best

george grombacher 16:00
So if I want my iPhone, and my Tesla and my Bitcoin to work, we need to get the metal out of the ground.

Pierre Leveille 16:07
Absolutely. Without it, we cannot do it.

george grombacher 16:13
Why? Why is there a Why has production been going down.

Pierre Leveille 16:21
Because the large mines that are producing most of the copper in the world, the grades are going down slowly they’re going there, they’re arriving near the end of life. So and of life of mines in general means less production. And in the past, at least 15 years, the exploration expenditure for copper were pretty low, because the price of copper was low. And when the price is low, companies are tending to not invest more so much in exploration, which is what we see today. It’s it’s, it’s not the way to look at it. Because nobody 15 years ago was able to predict that there would be a so massive shortage, or it’s so massive demand coming. But in the past five years, or let’s say since the since 10 years, we have seen that more and more coming. And then the by the time you react start exploring and there’s more money than then ever that is putting in put it in expression at the moment for copper at least. And what we see is that the it takes time, it could take up to 2025 years between the time you find a deposit that it gets in production. So but but the year the time is counted. So it’s it’s very important to so you will see company reopening old mines, what it will push also, which is not bad, it will force to two, it will force to find a it will force to find ways of recalibrating customer, you know the metals, that will be more and more important.

george grombacher 18:07
So finding, okay, so for lack of a better term recycling metals that are just sitting around somewhere extremely important. Yeah. And then going and going back to historic minds that maybe for lack of technology, or just lack of will or reasons, but maybe now because there’s such a demand, there’s an appetite to go back to those.

Pierre Leveille 18:33
Yes, but there will be a lot of failures into that for many reasons. But the ones that will be in that will resume mining it’s just going to be a short term temporary solution. No it’s it’s not going to be you need to find deposit that will that will operate 50 years you know at least it’s 25 to 50 years at least and an old mind that you do in production in general it’s less than 10 years.

george grombacher 19:03
Got it. Oh there we go. Up here. People are ready for your difference making tip What do you have for them

Pierre Leveille 19:14
You mean an investment or

george grombacher 19:17
whatever you’re into, you’ve got so much life experience with raising a family and doing business all over the world and having your kids go to school in Africa so a tip on copper or whatever you’re into.

Pierre Leveille 19:34
But there’s two things I like to see and I was telling my children many times and I always said you know don’t focus on what will bring you specifically money don’t think of Getting Rich. Think of doing what you what you like, what you feel your your your your your, you know you have been born to do so use your most you skills, do what you like, do what you wet well, and good things will happen to you. And I can see them grow in their life. And I can tell you that this is what happens. And sometimes you have setback like I had recently. But if we do things properly, if we do things that we like, and we liked that project, we were very passionate about that project, not only me, all my team, and if we do things properly, if we do things correctly, good things will happen. And we will probably get the project back had to go forward or we will find another big project that will be the launch of a new era. So that’s my most important tip in life. Do what you like, do it with your best scale and do it well and good things will happen.

george grombacher 20:49
Pierre Leveille 21:03
Thank you. I was happy to be with you to today.

george grombacher 21:06
Damn, tell us the websites and where where people can connect and find you.

Pierre Leveille 21:13
The it’s Deep South resources.com. So pretty simple.

george grombacher 21:18
Perfect. Well, if you enjoyed this as much as I did show up here your appreciation and share today’s show with a friend who also appreciate good ideas, go to deep south resources, calm and learn all about what they’re working on and track their progress.

Pierre Leveille 21:32
Thanks. Thanks, have a nice day.

george grombacher 21:36
And until next time, keep fighting the good fight. We’re all in this together.