Go Further Better with Ricky Zhang

george grombacher 0:02
Present is the founder and CEO of Prince of travel, they are your home for smarter travel. Welcome to the show, Ricky.

Ricky Zhang 0:11
Thanks for having me. George, pleasure to be here.

george grombacher 0:13
excited to have you on. Tell us a little about your personal lives more about your work, why you do what you do?

Ricky Zhang 0:22
Yeah, absolutely. So about seven years ago, I started printing travel. And we’re all about helping people travel the world by maximizing their frequent flyer points and loyalty programs, and doing so in a way that, you know, allows them to unlock elevated travel experiences at a fraction of the costs. So that’s been our mission since day one. And, you know, I got in the game myself back in the day, as you know, I was a traveler, but I was also a student. So I was on a limited budget, I was trying to figure out like how to make this whole thing worked for me how to get to see more of the world without having to spend too much money. And so I dove deep into all the points programs and credit cards, and figured it out for myself and decided to build a resource and build a travel company around it. And I spent seven years going strong. And, you know, we’re, we’re excited about the mission to bring the bring the power of traveling on points, making travel more accessible to you know, even more people and show more people to the wonders of what travel can do for you.

george grombacher 1:25
That always makes a lot of sense, where you are doing something personally, and you say, You know what, I bet there’s better ways to do this. And there’s a lot of complexity, it’s confusing, but I bet it’s not too hard to figure out. And turns out you were right.

Ricky Zhang 1:41
Yeah, 100%. You know, it’s, it’s one of those things where there’s a bit of a barrier entry at the start. But, you know, it takes a little bit of hard work, dedication, like anything worth doing, at the start figuring it out. And then from there, you know, after I figure it out for myself, the mission became, you know, there’s a way to make this more digestible and accessible to people. So that many more can benefit from all these opportunities that are available just by maximizing the right credit cards and using the right credit cards for your spending and learning to use these programs and whatnot. Right. So that’s, that’s been, that’s been the big motivator. And, you know, it’s been continued to be the case throughout the years.

george grombacher 2:23
It’s interesting, I imagine that I am not a person who spends a lot of time thinking about this in my family, my wife is very interested in it. So she’ll be excited to listen to the episode. But I’m sure that there’s probably some kind of a program at every level of travel, hotels, flights to rent cars, to restaurants, everything.

Ricky Zhang 2:49
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Well, loyalty programs are all the rage these days, basically, every business, you know, that you might encounter, definitely in the travel space, but even your day to day life, like you mentioned, restaurants, they’re big on this concept of loyalty because they’re proven to work, right? They’re proven to be able to, you know, change people’s behaviors, in a way that you know, incentivizes spend or activity engagements, you know, repeat business and whatnot. But definitely in the travel space, because of the way the economics work. Basically, since the 80s, the airlines in particular have been very enthusiastic about making these loyalty programs, right, nothing gets people going quite as much as this idea of a free flight, the promise of a free flight. And nothing gets them to like select one airline go with, you know, the airlines hotel or bank partner as much as like, Oh, I could get a free flight one day. So the airlines have really learned to tap into that psychology and use that to their advantage. And they’ve, you know, generated billions of dollars from their programs, right, and working with banks, and issuing cards and whatnots. And when we do is all about like, hey, you know, all this value is being created accruing to the airlines, here’s some, here’s how to, you know, earn back some of that value to your life by elevating and maximizing your own travel experiences. By playing the game the right way.

george grombacher 4:13
That is a game

Ricky Zhang 4:16
very much so at the end of the day, right? It’s, it’s a game, there are rules. There are no rules that are laid out. And your job is to figure out how to learn to maximize within them. Sometimes, there’s ways to maximize that are outside of the spirit of the rules, and those are outside and opportunities that lasts for a little while before the rules change. And then you know, you continue to optimize as you go along. And like any game, there’s time and energy involved in figuring out how to play it the best way how to maximize your strategy, but typically, as with any game worth playing, the the rewards are well worth the cost.

george grombacher 4:58
And I imagined The rewards come in different forms. I’m sure that and you can correct me where, wherever I might be wrong, that you can get better service. Obviously, free stuff is awesome. There’s status. So there’s ego, is it? Is it all these things?

Ricky Zhang 5:18
Yeah, 100% Well, you know, the free stuff is probably, it’s the biggest motivator, but it’s not the only thing, right? Because, you know, getting a free flight after your years of loyalty, and engaging with an airline, and, you know, you know, like shifting, you’re shifting your, your, your buying behavior in favor of one airline over the other, let’s say, that’s one piece. But then, to your point, the airlines and hotels and all the travel programs, these days, they’ve learned to tap into the ego side, right, of the of the human consumer. So the status is like, it’s they’re kind of saying the quiet part out loud. By naming their program, just like elite status, it’s kind of like, it very much appeals to you know, people are, are naturally then motivated to go on that hamster wheel and stay and fly as much as possible. And everybody kind of recognizes that, but can’t help themselves. Because if you’re gonna travel anyway, right, you might as well do so in a way that concentrates your activity with one or a handful of brands and gets you elevated treatment, as a result, right gives you a better experience. It’s, you know, programs are designed in a certain way. But ultimately, people partake, because it does give you say, the upgrade the breakfast, the you know, the nice sweet, the late checkout, and you’re staying in a hotel, when you’re flying, you know, upgrades, lounge access, and whatnot, that really make a difference to your quality of experience. And the other thing is, once you’ve experienced that, you don’t want to go back to the old way, right. So you want to like, do whatever you can to keep it and the airlines do that, too. So that’s, you know, that’s, that’s something I’d say like people should be aware of when they’re, when they’re looking to get into the game, let’s say when they’re looking to pursue the rewards on offer is that once you’ve gotten a taste of it, it’s hard to go back. So make sure if it’s something you truly want, then go for it. But also worth keeping that in mind.

george grombacher 7:15
How big of a shift in behavior is required to get a to make it a value.

Ricky Zhang 7:26
This is where I’d say there’s different levels of how much you can choose to participate. Right. And I think a lot of people would benefit from basically adopting this adopting the 8020 rule, right 20% of the effort gets you 80% of the reward. I think for a lot of people, it’s, it can be as simple as, you know, choosing the right set of two or three credit cards to use for your daily spending, which may require like revisiting this set once a year or so depending on how your spending and budgeting evolves. You know which categories of spending, you typically see yourself, you know, allocating more towards over the course of given year, if it’s going to be, for example, food and drink, then in the States, you definitely want the American Express Gold Card, that’s four times the points on food and drink. But most people don’t know that they just use like whatever. Like, some people often think that the platinum card is just the best card, right? But the earning rate on the platinum card isn’t, isn’t actually as strong as the gold card on four on four times the points on food and drink. If you’re in Canada, there’s just where I’m from, there’s there’s a card called the coupon card as well, which is five times the points on food and drink. So those are just two examples where, you know, just by choosing the right two or three credit cards for your ongoing spend, and then, like, layer on top of that, strategically applying for new cards, when there’s a higher welcome bonus, that’s very attractive, that will help you get closer to your next travel goal. So the next big trip you want to go on whether that’s business class to Europe, or, you know, somewhere in Asia or whatever it is, having a sense of which points are going to get you closer to that goal. And yeah, and then basically, you know, optimizing your set of cards, plus the strategic cards that you sign up for welcome bonus purposes, that’s like the 20% that I’ll get you basically 80% of the way there. And it’s, you know, couple of hours over the weekend, if you need something to do this weekend, right? List out your expenses, figure out what are the cards that are gonna serve you best and, and you know, just keeping up with with the news and the deals on the welcome bonuses on a semi regular basis, and that’ll get you most of the way there. Now. There’s room to grow further right. And that’s where some of the more dedicated people in this space are the type who ended up getting like, you know, a whole bunch of credit cards, and they are undergoing like multiple first class flights. First class trips around the world. Every year, and I was one of those people, right for most of my 20s. So it’s definitely possible to get these extremely, extremely attractive outsize rewards. But I’d say for most people, if you’re looking for like one trip a year, in first class, that’s definitely doable with only a fraction of that amount of work.

george grombacher 10:19
Nice, I appreciate that. So making sure that you are, if this is of if this is of interest to you, a good first step is looking at your consumer behavior. Because to your point, if you are, if you’re going out to eat a lot of food and drink some credit cards do this, and not necessarily those. So I think that that’s awesome advice right there. To maybe plug plug the site, this is a place where I can go to your website to sort of get all these kinds of updates, or am I having to go to each one of these credit card companies on my own?

Ricky Zhang 10:59
Yeah, definitely. That’s basically all we do at Princeton travel is to keep people updated on the latest goings on in the credit card, and loyalty and travel space. So any new deal in terms of welcome bonus, or a change to the earning rates that you should be paying attention to? Or if there’s a change to how one of the airline programs work, right, that’s going to matter when it’s time to redeem your hard earned points, how the rules work, and you know how that might change your strategy. That’s our bread and butter. So that’s what we cover on the website, we have YouTube as well. And we’ve got our social channels. So wherever you get your information, find a sense of travel.

george grombacher 11:37
Do all of these companies move in similar directions? For example, Visa, MasterCard, American Express, when they see one moving in a certain direction? Do the others follow? Or is everybody kind of doing their own thing?

Ricky Zhang 11:52
There’s typically a competitive element to it. So you’ll often see, for example, in the US, there’s so called Big Three airlines, right? They’ll tell united and American and typically with those where one goes, the others will follow. Right? It’s a pretty tight knit industry. And it’s one that has gotten even tighter over the years through consolidation. So I’d say it’s, it’s one of those industries, where it’s, you know, not every day that you see something truly innovative happening. A lot of the times there’s just, you know, yeah, like a lot of things moving in the same direction, often, not necessarily, to the consumers benefit, right? It’s, it’s it, especially if you’re looking to maximize your points, there’s more often going to be news, that’s unfavorable than favorable, right, the game is gradually getting less and less attractive, just because more and more people, you know, get into it, the airlines wizened up to all the rules, credit card issuers, like, you know, tighten the application restrictions. However, even though this is the gradual trend over like, the long term, right over like, you know, 1020 years, if you look back, at any given moment, there’s outsized opportunities, right, specific to that era. So even though now looking back at 10 years ago, we can always say, like, oh, the opportunities available, then were so great, you know, I could fly like first class for only say, like, 50,000 miles, or whatever it was, right? Even, you know, even so much as that may be true. Right? Now, there’s still very, very attractive opportunities in the current landscape that are that you’d be crazy not to take advantage on, right? Because you can still fly first class for 70,000 or 80,000 points, in certain cases, if you play the game, the right way. So the key thing is that it’s always evolving. And that’s, you know, that’s, again, why it’s important to stay on top of things, you know, even if it’s just a little bit of light reading here and there keeping up with the space. But that’s, it’s definitely important if you want to stay on top of it really maximize.

george grombacher 13:59
I think it’s interesting thing I’ve the airline industry has always been one of those things. It’s been really confusing to me, because it seems like people are constantly flying yet. Airlines appear from the outside looking in to always be financially struggling. So there’s always these mergers and consolidations, and this company is going bankrupt or whatever it might be. And it just seems like they would want you, me the consumer to become a Delta customer for life kind of a thing. Or if I’m Hilton Hotels, I just want me Are you to stay at my hotel all the time. How would you if you could wave a magic wand and I don’t know if the right term is fixed the airline industry or if you are a consultant, how would you consult with them to to be a better business partner to consumers?

Ricky Zhang 14:49
Yeah, it’s tricky because it’s one of those businesses where the margins are razor thin, right? And it’s kind of I mean, if you look at the sheer complexity of operations involved It’s, it’s a bit of a miracle that this industry like works the way it does, right that aviation, I always whenever I’m flying, I’m like, this is kind of like magic that all of this comes together to enable us to like get from point A to point B, but not just be on my particular journey, but everybody in the airport, everybody in all the planes at once like going where they just go for the most part all the time, right. So given the sheer complexity at play, you know, you look at the margins you look at like the, the, the state of the industry sometimes. You know, you look at on one hand, airlines are notorious for nickel and diming consumers. But in some ways, they kind of have to be like, keep everything going. And the fact that there are, there is also the upside in the form of these loyalty programs, which are insanely profitable to the airlines. Right. And that also means, basically, that it’s, you know, a cost to most consumers, in terms of like, how their behavior is, is, is changed by the loyalty programs, right. But the fact is that for the savviest among us, which is what, you know, the segment of consumers we’re looking to speak to, there is way to play the game and win and come out even further ahead. That’s, that’s pretty amazing to me. So, yeah, in terms of making it more consumer friendly, I mean, yeah, as, as a consultant, I’d probably be in a position where I’m saying, like, you want to lead with your brand, right? If you look at what delta is doing in the States, for example, delta is one of those airlines where they somehow managed to, like, carve out this reputation that’s ahead of united in America. And in many ways, even though they, you know, just on paper, and in practice, lack in many others, they’ve somehow been able to, you know, they’ve invested in the product, they’ve created these positive brand associations, and they consistently are able to command a premium over United America. And, you know, even if they’re weak in certain areas, that the others are strong, they’ve been able to maintain an industry leading position. So the goodwill with the customers that they’ve built up, right. So it’s like, that’s, that’s, that’s one of those areas where I think airlines are often short sighted, they’re often in a position where they’re, you know, cost cutting before thinking about looking looking out for the bottom line before thinking about the brand associations and longterm implications. And, you know, I’m somebody who, building my business has always been brand forward from day one. So that’s, you know, the lesson that that I probably also in parts in the industry as well.

george grombacher 17:46
Yeah, it’s interesting, it does seem like they are constantly sort of putting out fires or, and publicly traded companies need to find quarterly profit or trying to make quarterly profits. So just unfortunate leads to a lot of short term thinking and decision making, which is what you’re talking about. So maybe one of these days, they’ll call you up Ricky and say, Hey, come come fix this problem.

Ricky Zhang 18:12
You know, what? That’s, that’s perhaps on the roadmap, but I’m also looking to, you know, do the best that I can do and, you know, maybe Mayfield in that position one day.

george grombacher 18:23
So for people who are, who are rewards, travel points, curious, how do they how do they get started.

Ricky Zhang 18:34
So definitely pop over to print some travel.com, we’d love to have you, right, we’re all about, we just, we just recently defined a company vision again this year, and it’s to be the leading platform empowering every global citizen to go further better. And so if you’re somebody who has a desire to see the world, looking to, you know, travel more, if you’re curious about expanding your horizons, and you don’t want to break the bank and doing so then find us at Prince of travel.com Find us on YouTube and social as well. If you hop over the website, you can join our newsletter which hits your inbox every Sunday, and keeps you updated on all the latest in terms of you know, what’s happening in the space what to keep up with. And we’ll also deliver a quick intro course when you sign up as well just to catch up on all the basics.

george grombacher 19:25
I love it. Go far further better. I think that that’s great. We’re working here on to do here is to get better so you can live how you want so I think in a lot of ways it’s it’s very similar. So well, Ricky, thank you so much for coming on. Give us the website one more time, please.

Ricky Zhang 19:44
Prints of travel.com

george grombacher 19:45
Excellent. If you enjoyed this as much as I did show Ricky your appreciation share today share with a friend who also appreciates good ideas go to Prince of travel.com Sign up for the newsletter and it’ll hit your inbox every Sunday with the different updates and to stay on top of everything, take advantage of that introductory course if you are somebody who’s always hearing about people getting free flights or whatever it might be, it’s a good entry point to figure it out how you can change your behavior just a little bit and start getting major benefits that Ricky’s been talking about today. Thanks again, Ricky.

Ricky Zhang 20:21
Thanks for having me, George.

george grombacher 20:22
Till next time, remember, do your part by doing your best

george grombacher 16:00
So if I want my iPhone, and my Tesla and my Bitcoin to work, we need to get the metal out of the ground.

Pierre Leveille 16:07
Absolutely. Without it, we cannot do it.

george grombacher 16:13
Why? Why is there a Why has production been going down.

Pierre Leveille 16:21
Because the large mines that are producing most of the copper in the world, the grades are going down slowly they’re going there, they’re arriving near the end of life. So and of life of mines in general means less production. And in the past, at least 15 years, the exploration expenditure for copper were pretty low, because the price of copper was low. And when the price is low, companies are tending to not invest more so much in exploration, which is what we see today. It’s it’s, it’s not the way to look at it. Because nobody 15 years ago was able to predict that there would be a so massive shortage, or it’s so massive demand coming. But in the past five years, or let’s say since the since 10 years, we have seen that more and more coming. And then the by the time you react start exploring and there’s more money than then ever that is putting in put it in expression at the moment for copper at least. And what we see is that the it takes time, it could take up to 2025 years between the time you find a deposit that it gets in production. So but but the year the time is counted. So it’s it’s very important to so you will see company reopening old mines, what it will push also, which is not bad, it will force to two, it will force to find a it will force to find ways of recalibrating customer, you know the metals, that will be more and more important.

george grombacher 18:07
So finding, okay, so for lack of a better term recycling metals that are just sitting around somewhere extremely important. Yeah. And then going and going back to historic minds that maybe for lack of technology, or just lack of will or reasons, but maybe now because there’s such a demand, there’s an appetite to go back to those.

Pierre Leveille 18:33
Yes, but there will be a lot of failures into that for many reasons. But the ones that will be in that will resume mining it’s just going to be a short term temporary solution. No it’s it’s not going to be you need to find deposit that will that will operate 50 years you know at least it’s 25 to 50 years at least and an old mind that you do in production in general it’s less than 10 years.

george grombacher 19:03
Got it. Oh there we go. Up here. People are ready for your difference making tip What do you have for them

Pierre Leveille 19:14
You mean an investment or

george grombacher 19:17
whatever you’re into, you’ve got so much life experience with raising a family and doing business all over the world and having your kids go to school in Africa so a tip on copper or whatever you’re into.

Pierre Leveille 19:34
But there’s two things I like to see and I was telling my children many times and I always said you know don’t focus on what will bring you specifically money don’t think of Getting Rich. Think of doing what you what you like, what you feel your your your your your, you know you have been born to do so use your most you skills, do what you like, do what you wet well, and good things will happen to you. And I can see them grow in their life. And I can tell you that this is what happens. And sometimes you have setback like I had recently. But if we do things properly, if we do things that we like, and we liked that project, we were very passionate about that project, not only me, all my team, and if we do things properly, if we do things correctly, good things will happen. And we will probably get the project back had to go forward or we will find another big project that will be the launch of a new era. So that’s my most important tip in life. Do what you like, do it with your best scale and do it well and good things will happen.

george grombacher 20:49
Pierre Leveille 21:03
Thank you. I was happy to be with you to today.

george grombacher 21:06
Damn, tell us the websites and where where people can connect and find you.

Pierre Leveille 21:13
The it’s Deep South resources.com. So pretty simple.

george grombacher 21:18
Perfect. Well, if you enjoyed this as much as I did show up here your appreciation and share today’s show with a friend who also appreciate good ideas, go to deep south resources, calm and learn all about what they’re working on and track their progress.

Pierre Leveille 21:32
Thanks. Thanks, have a nice day.

george grombacher 21:36
And until next time, keep fighting the good fight. We’re all in this together.