Functional Anxiety with Jennie Ketcham-Crooks

george grombacher 0:01
Jenny Ketchum crooks is the founder, CEO and psychotherapist with West Coast anxiety clinic. Welcome to the show, Jenny.

Jennie Ketcham-Crooks 0:09
Thank you so much. I’m so excited to be here. I’ve been practicing my red leather yellow letters, and my unique New York’s in preparation for this. Excellent,

george grombacher 0:18
I love it. Well excited to have you on tell us a little about your personal lives more about your work and why you do what you do. Man

Jennie Ketcham-Crooks 0:26
a little bit about my personal life a little bit about my work. So I’m an anxiety specialist I work primarily with well all of my clients vibrate at a at a higher frequency than people who aren’t suffering with clinical anxiety. And so I to vibrate a little bit of a higher frequency both personally and professionally. So I run a anxiety clinic, we specialize in anxiety and OCD. And in my personal life, I tried to apply the things that I teach a lot of my clients to do, which leads me to do insane things like open a group practice, even though I’m fairly sure that it’s going to be a colossal failure, and everyone’s going to laugh at me. And, and to do things like take on parenting, where also failure is around every corner. And I’m just I’m trying to teach them how to get to therapy as the meter of success. So yeah, yeah, um, oh, I’m also a licensed clinical social worker, and a parent. So how many more things can I share in a really fast and inappropriately, Cadence manner?

george grombacher 1:38
We’re off to a great start. Tell me more about this vibration that people are vibrating at? And can you gauge somebody’s vibration? Just from spending three minutes with them? And if so, how was my year

Jennie Ketcham-Crooks 1:50
you have like a really nice vibrational pattern. It comes?

Speaker 1 1:55
You got you got an easiness to you that I think, yeah, I wouldn’t I wouldn’t gauge you as clinically anxious. But yeah, give me give me 20 more minutes. And we’ll we’ll see how it unfolds. I’ll pay attention to things that you say. Yeah,

george grombacher 2:09
there’s, there’s you go. There’s still a lot of time. Go ahead.

Speaker 1 2:18
Yeah, that’s part of the vibrating a little bit faster, right. Like the, the pace of the speech and some of the tone, the pressure that that can be there the things that people say, in sort of very quiet, and, like, subtle way.

george grombacher 2:43
So are we suffering we being just people, people in knighted states, or maybe all around the world? I’m, my guess would be that we’re a lot more anxious than we used to be? And if that’s true, why is that?

Speaker 1 2:57
Yeah, I think we are a lot more anxious than we used to be. We are certainly more stimulated. And we used to be, right. It used to be that we get a newspaper, you read the newspaper, the newspaper comes to an end. It used to be that we would go to school, and we would learn about who was popular and what is popular through regular exposure to Elisa, because she was the popular girl when I was growing up, right. She smelled like pair glass, she wore overalls. I found that deducted that Victoria’s Secrets is where I must commandeer my sense from and I would never be good enough to be in overalls, because they would never fit me like they fit her. Right. And so now we get that information really quickly. Right? And you couple that in with this really persistent message that says that you must do X in order to be successful. And what’s the saying? Beyonce only has 24 hours in a day. I think that’s right. So like, clearly, I must strive to be Beyonce, right? And achieve all that she can achieve in 24 hours, even though like I am just like, never going to be Beyonce. Right? So there’s this sort of like set expectation that you should achieve. But you likely never will. And so right from the outset, it’s it’s go go go. It’s kind of that feeling nervous. I mean, you’re you’re out in Phoenix, right? Like, you guys have traffic, you get stuck in traffic. That feeling that you get inside of you, that you gotta get you gotta get there. But you’re just sitting. You can’t get there any faster like there is actually not a place you can ever get because you’re always here. Right and so there is this messaging that like I’ve just got to get there. I’ve just got to do the thing. I’ve just got to, I’ve just got I’ve just got I’ve just got a and suddenly you vibrations start.

george grombacher 5:05
stimulation and expectation is, is there a genetic thing to it? Is there a hormonal thing to it? Is it that’s the end of my question, even though Yeah, I was pretending like I was gonna ask something else.

Jennie Ketcham-Crooks 5:23
I like I like it, I, I try and do a practice where I listen to the end of the sentence. So until I don’t step on

george grombacher 5:32
it, but normally it serves you probably,

Speaker 1 5:35
it does. And then they’re oftentimes where we sit in silence for quite a long time, because I, I work on my sit in silence skill as well. So that could be uncomfy not great for podcasts. You know, but yeah, so there’s, there’s a lot of factors into why we are anxious. Right? There’s, there’s just evolution, right? Like, the, so you and I are out in the field. And we look out into the distance, and there’s a blackberry bush, and there’s a bear. But is it a blackberry bush, or is it a bear, right? And so if we are unsure, we look out into the distance. And if I say, Oh, that’s a black gray Bush, I’m going out to get it. But you say that’s a bear. I’m going back to the hut. 10 out of 10 times you’re going to live, right? You have been selected for that ability to look out to see uncertainty and to say, oh, that’s, that’s dangerous. I’m going back. Right? I go out there thinking it’s a blackberry bush, but it’s a bear. I’m dead. Right? I don’t get selected for that. We don’t get selected. So are parents, parents, parents, parents, parents, parents, parents, parents, looked out into the great uncertain future and thought that bears going back to the hut and then they hightailed it back to the hut. So there is this evolutionary component where we have been selected for our capacity to forecast a threat that might come down the pipeline. Right. So there’s that. There’s, there’s some genetics to it. There’s also some learning to it, right? Like, how many of us out there learned about worrying from our worrywart mothers or our worrywart grandmothers, or even our dads worrying about this worrying about this? Right. And so there’s this learned component as well.

george grombacher 7:33
Yeah. So I guess I should have started with what is what is anxiety?

Speaker 1 7:41
Yeah, great question. So anxiety, I think of anxiety as so the differentiating factors between anxiety and fear, right? Fear is you’re swimming in the ocean being attacked by a shark, you are afraid it is happening in that moment, that threat is happening. Everything in you gets activated, and you fight or flight, right or a piece. In this case, you’re gonna want to punch the shark in in the nose. Right? Anxiety is like standing on the beach, looking out at the water and wondering if there are sharks out there? Is there a potential threat out there that I need to plan for adjust for prevent, right? It’s this sort of anticipatory fear of something that we don’t actually know, is coming down the pipeline or something that we know you got performance? You’re like, Oh, God, is it going to be terrible? Am I going to be terrible? That’s, that’s anxiety. But you’re on the stage, looking out at the people. It’s performance time. That’s fear.

george grombacher 8:49
So we were joking about about Goldilocks, and just right, before we turn before we hit record, but is that kind of what we’re looking for? Because I don’t want to be blindly running towards the bush slash bear. And I don’t want to be too terrified going to water.

Speaker 1 9:05
Yeah, I think that’s a, it’s, that’s also a slippery goal, right? Because there’s a type of OCD that wants that just right. Like, how do I know when I’m there will just feels right. And then that’s when I stopped doing the compulsion. Right. So Goldilocks has a little bit of that in there, right? Where you just go in with a just right kind of thing. But we want is functional, right? Like, how much of your planning is functional? How much do you actually need to do? When have you planned sufficiently for? I don’t know 70% of the catastrophes that could occur on this performance. And when is it time to put the planning down? Right.

george grombacher 9:46
Goal is functionality, is it is it all irritating that I’m trying to boil things down? Boiled like your entire life’s work down to Goldilocks.

Speaker 1 9:55
I kind of love it. We actually and unfortunately, it’s not my entire life’s work, right? Like I, before I was an anxiety specialist, I was actually a porn star and I was on reality rehab shows and before that I was a barista and a pop dealer. And, and, you know, I might be something after a therapist, right. And I’ve written books. And so there’s a I love the idea of being able to whittle anything down, because I sort of like, let you know, like, fall into that sort of like reductionist thinking, and wouldn’t it be so nice if it were all that easy? But yeah, so I appreciate that. That’s where my mind went. Because my mind, I call her Brenda, she does it too. She’s like, she’s looking for quality locks all the time. Just right. And

george grombacher 10:54
I really think that I am doing that also, I have a tendency to I do not think that I’m an anxious person. In fact, I, I think and I think that I require a level of, of, of healthy anxiety to get up and do the things that need to be done every day. What, and that’s really, really broad statement. But what are your thoughts on that?

Jennie Ketcham-Crooks 11:19
A great word. I think I might even let go of the idea of healthy and just sort of have it be functional, right? Like there’s a functional amount of anxiety that you experience on a daily basis that helps you move through this very complicated world, right? Like, I don’t want to go for a walk with someone who isn’t just a little bit anxious, right? Because they’re going to be jumping into the street, they’re going to be doing things that put our life in jeopardy, right? I want somebody who has the capacity to think more than one day ahead more than one minute ahead, so that we can do some thoughtful planning around our life. I don’t necessarily want to be someone who gets so rigidly locked into planning for there. And then for a time that is not now that I totally miss the things that are happening right now. Right. And so you wouldn’t brush your teeth, if you weren’t just a little bit anxious, there’s a functional amount, like, we’re trying not to get cavities here, folks, right? So like, Let’s brush our teeth. That is a that is a very functional amount of anxiety, brushing your teeth from morning to evening, because you don’t want any sort of germs or like that is a that is a dysfunctional amount. That is that is not helping you and it’s not necessarily that the anxiety is dysfunctional, it’s that how you’re responding to it is dysfunctional.

george grombacher 12:45
My response is okay, so how do I, how do I know if I am overly anxious, if my if my anxiety is, is not functional, but it feels like it’s functional, because I’ve had it my whole life, it’s mine.

Speaker 1 13:02
It is yours, it is also mine, right? Because it is the same, it is the same emotional experience that we all have, which is why the symptoms of it are similar, right? You get that rapid heartbreak, you get a little bit of tunnel vision a little bit sweaty, the sweat is so helpful, because if you have to fight a wild animal, it’s better if you’re slippery, so you can get away from it. So it’s the anxiety is ours, right? Like as a species, it is our we do get to have a little bit of ownership over it because our amazing brains are the facilitators and creators of it right? It all comes up when we can forecast a threat. So when is it clinical? When is it an amount that isn’t helpful for you? What does your life look like you want to write like, Are you engaged and embroiled with this epic battle with this emotion state that’s inside you so much so that you’re missing the life that is in front of you? Right, I think that’s a good measure, like how small has your life gotten? Because you’re fighting against this feeling that’s inside of you. Because it’s not the feeling that’s inside of you. That’s the problem. It’s again, the way that you’re responding to it. That’s the behavior, right? And that’s what we look to change in therapy is how do you respond to this totally normal, beautiful, helpful, evolutionary, important thing that’s happening inside of you?

george grombacher 14:45
That is really helpful. How small is your life? What when he said that I, I, I took it all the way down to worst case scenario from my perspective, that I would be so anxious to go outside but then I’m stuck. My phone all day just staring at that. And that’s probably not a healthy thing and probably really exacerbates a lot of my anxiety. Yeah,

Speaker 1 15:08
totally 100% Right. So, and that’s actually started seeing that a lot of my clients. So, client shows up, they feel anxious about a particular situation. And so then they jump into their phone. And our phones end up being this safety behavior. Right? It’s the thing that brain says, Okay, well, if I can’t tolerate this anxiety, I know I can dip out by going in my phone. Step into an elevator don’t know what to do. Don’t know where to look. Don’t know whether I should just make small talk or stare at the wall like a crazy person, right? Like, like who does that? Right? Like, I’ll just look at my phone. walking through the hallway at like trying to get to my class, unsure if I want to say something to anybody. Oh, my God, he’s so cute. They’re so cute. What do I do? Just look at my phone. Right sitting on the bus don’t know what to do. Just look at my phone. Right? And so there’s this like, continued use like that the anxiety comes up? Are there threats out there is socializing a threat is connection, a threat is being present with some other human in the elevator a threat? I don’t know, look at my phone. I started seeing this with all my clients. And then one by one, we started really trying to move away from using a smartphone as a tool for managing anxiety. Right? Because what was actually doing is getting in the way of you learning something about yourself. Can you talk to the person that you think is super cute? Can you tolerate? Can you even enjoy the feeling of being anxious? Right? Like I don’t know about you, but I’ve been a roller coaster girl I love. Right, and that anticipation standing in line that oh my god, here we go. There we go. Physiologically, it’s exactly the same as the stuff that leads up to a panic attack, like it is no different. What’s different is the story that we tell ourselves. So I started seeing this with a lot of clients. And then I started thinking of this is this thing, this is an avoidance was an avoidance thing, right this phone. But then I saw myself do it.

Jennie Ketcham-Crooks 17:25
I was at was it it was a Super Bowl party at our house. And at the time, my daughter, my older daughter, Elsie, she was like she was just about to turn one. And she was at the delightful stage with a dish or like shuffles along all the furniture, right? Just like just learned to walk but hadn’t taken the big risk of the first step. And I had one of those errant thoughts that we all have, right like thought comes up, whatever you pay attention to it, you don’t pay attention to it. I followed it. It was about Snooki and Jersey Shore, naturally as one thinks about when one is sitting in a room filled with people that are not are not talking about the Jersey Shore. So I followed this thought What is she doing? I must know. And that, you know, if you give a moose, Smokey, you’re probably going to ask for the situation. And then you’re going to want to know Ronnie’s in jail, right? Because obviously, that’s the next stop. And so pretty soon time had passed. I didn’t know how much time had passed. Right. And then everybody started clapping. And I looked up from my phone. And I realized that ALC had taken her first step.

Speaker 1 18:35
And it was this moment that I missed. I wasn’t locked into my phone because I was actively avoiding stuff. I just went on autopilot. Right, like I just the thought was there, like Oh, and then and I went and then the black hole happened in time path, which sort of like set me back from this idea that like phones are just about avoiding anxiety. Maybe we’re just on autopilot, too.

george grombacher 19:10
Yeah, I think that that makes sense. So because you do what you do that suggests to me that anxiety is an acute condition and not chronic, but I could be wrong.

Jennie Ketcham-Crooks 19:21
I mean, as long as you have prefrontal cortex, anxiety condition, I am not allowed to lobotomize anybody as per my malpractice insurance. I mean, I get it right but whatever. Yeah. So you’re you’re not getting rid of the fact that you’re an anxious human. But what you can do is learn to wrap your arms around your self in moments of suffering, and to acknowledge that this is this is part of the human condition. This very specific lever of suffering. This is something we all do. And we don’t have to fight against. It’s actually something that makes us human.

george grombacher 20:10
It’s a feature not a bug, exact

Speaker 1 20:12
feature, not a bug that we will need to solve for this. I love it.

george grombacher 20:20
Well, Jenny, To be continued, I think we have to have you back on. There’s a million things we could talk about. But thank you so much for coming on today. Where can people learn more about you? How can they engage with you? Yeah,

Speaker 1 20:31
thanks for having me. You can learn more about me by visiting me and my group practice West Coast anxiety, you can hit me up on Instagram. It’s becoming Jenny je and an ice and I have a new book out. It’s called look up. It’s a 30 day pack to digital minimalism and real life maximalism. And if you too, are missing precious moments of your life. It’s a great, great way to get unstuck and get it on Amazon right now.

george grombacher 20:59
Excellent. If you enjoyed this as much as I did, show genuine appreciation and share today’s show with a friend who also appreciates good ideas. Go to West Coast anxiety.com Check out Jenny’s practice and everything that she is working on. You can find her on Instagram at becoming Jenny. And then pick up your copy of Jenny’s newest book look up. And that will certainly link all those in the notes of the show. Jenny can ask you one more question.

Jennie Ketcham-Crooks 21:28
Please. Do.

george grombacher 21:30
You have a pair of overalls

Jennie Ketcham-Crooks 21:33
I have finally committed and sure it’s like so uncomfortable wearing them. But I do it anyway. So

george grombacher 21:44
thank you again, Jenny. And until next time, remember, do your part by doing your best

george grombacher 16:00
So if I want my iPhone, and my Tesla and my Bitcoin to work, we need to get the metal out of the ground.

Pierre Leveille 16:07
Absolutely. Without it, we cannot do it.

george grombacher 16:13
Why? Why is there a Why has production been going down.

Pierre Leveille 16:21
Because the large mines that are producing most of the copper in the world, the grades are going down slowly they’re going there, they’re arriving near the end of life. So and of life of mines in general means less production. And in the past, at least 15 years, the exploration expenditure for copper were pretty low, because the price of copper was low. And when the price is low, companies are tending to not invest more so much in exploration, which is what we see today. It’s it’s, it’s not the way to look at it. Because nobody 15 years ago was able to predict that there would be a so massive shortage, or it’s so massive demand coming. But in the past five years, or let’s say since the since 10 years, we have seen that more and more coming. And then the by the time you react start exploring and there’s more money than then ever that is putting in put it in expression at the moment for copper at least. And what we see is that the it takes time, it could take up to 2025 years between the time you find a deposit that it gets in production. So but but the year the time is counted. So it’s it’s very important to so you will see company reopening old mines, what it will push also, which is not bad, it will force to two, it will force to find a it will force to find ways of recalibrating customer, you know the metals, that will be more and more important.

george grombacher 18:07
So finding, okay, so for lack of a better term recycling metals that are just sitting around somewhere extremely important. Yeah. And then going and going back to historic minds that maybe for lack of technology, or just lack of will or reasons, but maybe now because there’s such a demand, there’s an appetite to go back to those.

Pierre Leveille 18:33
Yes, but there will be a lot of failures into that for many reasons. But the ones that will be in that will resume mining it’s just going to be a short term temporary solution. No it’s it’s not going to be you need to find deposit that will that will operate 50 years you know at least it’s 25 to 50 years at least and an old mind that you do in production in general it’s less than 10 years.

george grombacher 19:03
Got it. Oh there we go. Up here. People are ready for your difference making tip What do you have for them

Pierre Leveille 19:14
You mean an investment or

george grombacher 19:17
whatever you’re into, you’ve got so much life experience with raising a family and doing business all over the world and having your kids go to school in Africa so a tip on copper or whatever you’re into.

Pierre Leveille 19:34
But there’s two things I like to see and I was telling my children many times and I always said you know don’t focus on what will bring you specifically money don’t think of Getting Rich. Think of doing what you what you like, what you feel your your your your your, you know you have been born to do so use your most you skills, do what you like, do what you wet well, and good things will happen to you. And I can see them grow in their life. And I can tell you that this is what happens. And sometimes you have setback like I had recently. But if we do things properly, if we do things that we like, and we liked that project, we were very passionate about that project, not only me, all my team, and if we do things properly, if we do things correctly, good things will happen. And we will probably get the project back had to go forward or we will find another big project that will be the launch of a new era. So that’s my most important tip in life. Do what you like, do it with your best scale and do it well and good things will happen.

george grombacher 20:49
Pierre Leveille 21:03
Thank you. I was happy to be with you to today.

george grombacher 21:06
Damn, tell us the websites and where where people can connect and find you.

Pierre Leveille 21:13
The it’s Deep South resources.com. So pretty simple.

george grombacher 21:18
Perfect. Well, if you enjoyed this as much as I did show up here your appreciation and share today’s show with a friend who also appreciate good ideas, go to deep south resources, calm and learn all about what they’re working on and track their progress.

Pierre Leveille 21:32
Thanks. Thanks, have a nice day.

george grombacher 21:36
And until next time, keep fighting the good fight. We’re all in this together.