Strange Bedfellows

So from about the age of nine or 10 years old to 20, around the age 2021, tennis was a major part of my life. It was a massive, gigantic part of my life. And somewhat odd because I grew up in Duluth, Minnesota, which, for those of you don’t know, it is not necessarily where you would think to play a lot of tennis, more of a hockey kind of a place where we’ve got two seasons, we have winter in the Fourth of July. That’s kind of the joke that we like to use up there in Duluth. But regardless, somehow, some way, I became very competitive tennis player and competed at a pretty high level as a junior, and then had the opportunity to compete at the division one level. And today, now I’m 46 years old, and I played tennis competitively a couple of times as a grown up, but have now transitioned into like everybody else in the world, playing pickleball. And I am extremely grateful, and always have been, for that foundation of of knowing how to play a record sport, because, while it’s not completely the same, the transition from tennis to Pickleball has been, has been a fun one, and I’m, I’m a good pickleball player, just because of my foundation. And as a tennis player, and growing up, I I was a Pete Sampras fan as Andrea Agassi fan, Jim Courier, Michael Chang, they’re all these wonderful American tennis players. And Sampras was the most successful. And when he was on his his run towards the end of his career, he had won four straight wimbledons, and he had, I think at that point, broken the record for most majors. So that’s Wimbledon, the US Open, the Australian Open and the French Open. And then out of nowhere, in the fourth round, Pete Sampras loses. He gets beat by this upstart 19 year old that I had certainly never heard of. His name was Roger Federer, and I could see it in my mind. I remember watching live on TV, Federer winning and fall into his knees. And it was just this crazy moment. We were all we were all shocked at this unbeatable guy, Pete Sampras on grass, loses to to a player that we didn’t necessarily know, this Swiss guy named Roger Federer, and in a lot of ways, the rest, as they say, is is history, because Federer then went on to have one of the greatest careers in in athletics. Tennis has always been a sport where one person dominates and federal dominated for what seemed like a really long time. And not only that, but he was personification of sportsmanship, just a absolute gentleman. He was stylish. He had a beautiful game. He moved on the court like a ballerina. He’s a good looking guy. He looked great. And his tennis clothes, one thing about tennis, it’s great. My wife wanted to play tennis just because of the tennis clothes. And he had this one handed backhand that I was so I don’t know if jealous or envious is the term. I just loved it to the point where, as somebody who hits two hands on his backhand, like, Man, if I could figure out how to hit that one hand drill. Just It’s such a pretty, pretty thing. It is like, I just said, It’s like watching somebody do ballet or dance on a tennis court. And he, he dominated and enjoyed so much success. And as I mentioned, was this wonderful ambassador. He spent hundreds of weeks as the number one player in the world. Five years he finished as the number one player in the world. All told, he won 20 grand slams, uh, all extraordinary, and he won the Sportsmanship Award, the Stefan Edberg Sportsmanship Award, 13 times on on the tour, so universally agreed upon. Roger Federer, great human being, amazing player. Seemed like an unbeatable player for a long time, until, until Rafael Nadal shows up, shows up on the scene. This guy from Majorca, which. Going to be honest. I wasn’t sure where that was, but Rafa as he goes by relentless, holy cow. Re let less. If I had to pick who would I? If I had to pick between somebody I would want to play, they would all both destroy me. I wouldn’t win a single point against either one of them, but I would not want to play against Nadal. It’s just so relentless, so physically imposing and intense and really relentless, never stopped, never gave up on a point like every point was the most important point, also known as match point, and that was Rafa, and he was a clay court player. And everybody thought, okay, he’ll just dominate Clay courts. Well, no, not so fast there either. He became one of the best tennis players of all time, and certainly on every surface, meaning Clay courts, grass courts, hard courts, you get the idea. So federal was on top forever, and then comes Rafa. And what a rivalry they had, what incredible matches they had. Think about tennis. I have an immense bias towards tennis, but I believe it to be one of probably the the pinnacle of individual sports, you’d say boxing or fighting, but boxers and fighters have corner men or women, meaning their coaches get to talk to them between rounds. There’s no finer expression of competition than getting locked into a cage, if you’re a UFC fan mixed martial arts, or stepping inside of the ropes of a boxing ring, where it’s you against the other guy or gal, and you are literally trying to stop the other person’s ability to continue functioning. You’re trying to hurt the other person. To win, to win means you’re going to hurt the other person. Crazy tennis, there’s no coach, so you’re out there on your own. There’s no caddy. Think about golf. You’ve got a caddy that’s with you, that’s hand in your clubs, and you’re talking through each shot, not how it goes with tennis. Tennis combines. It’s an incredibly technical game, which means you have to be extremely highly skilled and execute lots of different kinds of shots on lots of different kinds of surfaces. It demands extreme cardiovascular fitness. Everybody’s in super good shape. And then it’s the mental side of tennis, which is probably the most important. So these guys and these gals are, are on an island. They are, they are out there competing against one another. And it’s, it’s personal, and it’s business, and it’s all these things. So what would you think if you were Federer, you’re on top of the world, and all of a sudden this other guy shows up, and he’s in many ways better than you are. Would you be resentful? Would you dislike it? Would you hate him? Would you wish ill upon him. You certainly couldn’t blame somebody for doing that. But how did it go? How? How did this relationship end up? And the reason that I’m talking about this is because Nidal Rafa is is retiring. If he’s not already made the decision to retire. It’s really close. He’s talked about it. And Federer retired a couple years ago, and I was on X, formerly known as Twitter, the other day, and I saw a post from Roger Federer to Rafael Nadal, and it was just the most wonderful thing I’d seen in a long time. And so I wanted to share that, because it’s highly possible you did not see it, and then talk a little bit more about how it shows up in other aspects of life and and business. So Federer hosts on X says, vamos, as you get ready to graduate from tennis, I’ve got a few things to share before I maybe get emotional. Let’s start with the obvious. You beat me a lot more than I managed to beat you. You challenged me in ways no one else could on clay. It felt like I was stepping into your backyard, and you made me work harder than I ever thought. I could just hold my ground. You made me reimagine my game, even going so far as to change the size of my racket head, hoping for any edge. I’m not a very superstitious person, but you took it to the next level. Your whole process, all those rituals, assembling your water bottles like toys, soldiers in formation, fixing your hair, adjusting your underwear, all of it with the highest intensity. Secretly, I

kind of love the whole thing, because it was so you. Unique. It was so you and you know that, and you know what, Rafa, you made me enjoy the game even more. Okay, maybe not at first, after the 2004 Australian Open, I achieved the number one ranking for the first time. I thought I was on top of the world, and I was until two months later, when you walked on the court in Miami in your red sleeveless shirt showing off those biceps, and you beat me convincingly. All that buzz had been hearing about you, about this amazing young player from Majorca, generational talent, probably going to win a major someday. It wasn’t just hype. We were both at the start of our journey, and it’s one we ended up taking together 20 years later. Rafa, I have to say what incredible run you’ve had, including 14 French opens, historic. You made Spain proud. You made the whole tennis world proud. I keep thinking about the memories we’ve shared, promoting the sport together, playing that match on half grass half clay, breaking the all time attendance record by playing in front of more than 50,000 fans in Cape Town, always cracking each other up, wearing each other out on the court, and then sometimes almost literally having to hold each other up during trophy ceremonies. I’m so grateful you invited me to Majorca to help launch the Rafa Nadal Academy in 2016 actually, I kind of invited myself. I knew you were too polite to insist on me being there, but I didn’t want to miss it. You’ve always been a role model for kids around the world, and merca and I are so glad that our children have all trained at your academies, been a blast, and learned so much like 1000s of other young players, although I always worried my kids would come home playing tennis as lefties. That’s funny. And then there was London, the labor cup in 2022 my final match meant everything to me that you were by my side, not as my rival, but as my doubles partner, sharing the court with you that night, sharing those tears, will forever be one of the most special moments in my career. Ralph, I know you focused on the last stretch your epic career. We will talk when it’s done for now, I just want to congratulate your family and team, who all played a massive role in your success. And I want you to know that your old friend is always cheering for you and will be cheering just as loud for everything you do next. Rafa, that best always your fan. Roger, what an endearing, endearing thing, making me want to cry for goodness sakes. Maybe it’s a tennis player thing, just a big softy, but after all of that, after a lifetime of tennis together, you know, Federer talked about how rapa made him a better player, and in spite of the fact that he beat him more than Federer beat Nadal, and they had some of the greatest matches, there’s some of the best friends, and that is an absolutely incredible thing. So so much to be taken from that. The two people that you wouldn’t expect to have forged this incredible friendship that goes well beyond the lines of a tennis court or anything like that. It’s just profound. And so I was curious, where else is this showing up? Because it does seem like, or we do live in a very, very kind of polarized worlds right now, where it’s in group, out group, it’s good team, bad team. That’s kind of the whole thing, but not showing up there, not showing up there. So Abraham Lincoln, I think that that’s probably the next best? Well, the best Lincoln’s approach with his Team of Rivals is probably better than Nadal having a good relationship with Federer. Let’s think we can probably go ahead and agree on that. So Lincoln included some of his major political rivals in his cabinet upon being elected president, and there was a book written by Doris Kearns Goodwin called Team of Rivals, the political genius of Abraham Lincoln, and his decision to include his rivals in his cabinet was indeed a strategic one. He believed that surrounding himself with strong, diverse perspectives would make his presidency and his leadership better. So he brought in William Seward as his secretary of state, and Seward was a leading contender for the Republican nomination in 1860 which Lincoln ultimately won. Salmon Chase was Lincoln’s Secretary of the Treasury, another competitor for the nomination, and Lincoln appreciated chase for his financial expertise and his know how I believe that Sam and Chase is was on the $1,000 bill, or maybe the 50,000 Dollar bill. There’s a huge bill. I think it was 50,000 and it was never necessarily used in circulation, but it was used by the Treasury during the Civil War to be able to, obviously, move money efficiently. That was when we actually had or paper money meant something. It wasn’t just that was before the days of just printing money like like we do now. So you actually had to move money around. And anyway, that’s sort of a deep cut there. Uh, Edward Bates was Lincoln’s Attorney General, also a former rival of Lincoln. So by including his his political enemies, his his rivals, he ensured his administration represented a wide range of views. That’s the danger of our political system. When you have just two parties, you’ve got Republicans, Democrats, and what we just are experiencing right now is that the Republicans are now going to control the executive branch, which is the presidency, but also both houses of Congress, so the House of Representatives and the Senate and currently the Supreme Court is comprised of more conservative which are considered to be Republican leaning judges. So the danger is, well, are you just going to end up isolating half the country? And how is that serving anybody? Everybody needs to feel represented. And Lincoln recognized that said, how do we help people that their guy didn’t win or their gal didn’t win? How do we still help them to feel as if they are being represented. And so Lincoln certainly did that. Now it wasn’t just Lincoln. George Washington did that as well. He included a lot of his ideological rivals in the cabinet as well. He brought in Alexander Hamilton as a Secretary of the Treasury, Jefferson as the Secretary of State, and they had massive disagreements, literally legendary disagreements, but those competing views helped to shape and strengthen the United States of America. FDR also did this. He appointed political opponents from across the spectrum during the Great Depression and WW two to foster unity, he brought in a Republican to serve as a Secretary of War. He brought in another Republican to serve as a Secretary of the Navy, Winston Churchill. He developed a wartime coalition during World War Two in order to reunite the country. So he brought in members of competing or the opposition parties, which are the Labor Party, but he took a bipartisan approach. Is recognizing having different ideas, having different philosophies, different approaches is could be, can be a positive thing. Just different for the sake of being different is not a positive thing, but recognizing when it does become additive, it’s a really powerful thing. Mandela did it in South Africa. He had a government of national unity after apartheid fell. Mandela was the first black president. He included members of the former regime, FW de Klerk, last president, he actually served as Mandela’s deputy president. Had a very inclusive government that symbolized reconciliation and nation building. And if you know anything about Nelson Mandela, that he’s able to do that after what they did to him. Amazing. What a human being. My goodness, Obama also included his his some of his opponents. He included Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State. He retained Robert Gates, was a Republican from the George W Bucha administration. So there’s lots of examples throughout history, even going so far back, well, you could point to, I’m sure, many, many historical examples. But in contemporary history, provisional government in Russia in 1917 after zard Nicholas the second the Provisional Government included lots of different kinds or lots of different people from different parties, different affiliations, in order to try and get the country moving in the right direction. So and it’s not just it’s not just politics. There’s certainly a lot of different examples of this in business as well, Steve Jobs hired John Scully away from Pepsi. John Scully was CEO of PepsiCo. They’re very, very different. They have different management styles, different skill sets, different approaches. And jobs recognized that

sticking with Steve Jobs. Jobs. When they acquired Pixar, it was again, it was a different, tough deal, and jobs invited rivals to sit on the board, and that allowed Pixar to grow and evolve into the powerhouse that we know it’s to be today, Satya Nadella, who became the CEO of Microsoft, he brought Bill Gates back into the fold. 2014 he reintegrated him as a technical advisor. So Howard Schultz, with Starbucks. He’s obviously the visionary leader, founder of Starbucks. He brought in somebody named Kevin Johnson, who is a tech executive. He eventually went on to succeed Howard Schultz. And Schultz recognized that Johnson had expertise in digital technology, so didn’t know anything about coffee, but Howard Schultz recognized you don’t need to know everything about coffee. What we need is to have some expertise in areas that we’re not strong in Elon Musk is a tough guy to work for, certainly with SpaceX, he is right hand lady for the most part. GWEN Shotwell definitely construct contrasting strengths and styles, but they’ve been able to to collaborate and do, obviously, amazing things. So this goes on and on and on and on and on. List goes on and on and on. I think it’s really, really interesting thing that just because you think that people would would not like one another does not mean that people do not like one another. It is certainly evidence of a self assured, confident, competent person that you would bring in your rival, your adversary, people of different political parties, people from different backgrounds, different beliefs, that you understand that doing so will help you. It’ll help you to become a better tennis player. It’ll help you to be become better president. It’ll help you become a better CEO. So strange bedfellows often are what are required to to do things that are different. Do things same, you’re going to get similar results, and that’s not bad. Mean countries doing pretty well. Some of the companies that I laid out pretty successful before, but then they went on to do even more incredible things. So what would Federer career been without an adult? Difficult to say, difficult to say. Really good. I actually pretty simple to say it, but a really good career, but with both of them together, turned into a really wonderful thing. Really wonderful thing, very, very, very memorable matches and moments, some of the most memorable. And in a lot of ways, this is a celebration of really true, real diversity, when you think about sort of the clumsy, basic, simplistic versions of diversity that we’re thinking about today, just your immutable characteristics, I’m white guy or black guy, I’m a straight guy, you’re a gay guy, whatever, like, yeah, that leads to diversity. But that’s not necessarily anything that I have control over. I did not choose to be what I am. I just am what I am now, who I surround myself with their ideas, the way that they approach things, the way that they live their lives. That’s where real diversity comes in, and that’s what the true power of diversity is, particularly when it comes to politics, when it comes to growing a company, and certainly if you’re able to bring in somebody and learn from your your athletic rival that’ll sharpen your game as well. Whole idea of iron sharpening iron. So how to close this and land it? Congratulations to Rafa Nadal and a wonderful career. Congratulations to Roger Federer on being a absolutely magnanimous, continue to be a gentleman and wonderful ambassador for the sport of tennis, but certainly just somebody that we can all look up to conducting themselves in a way that is admirable and we can all aspire to do the same. Right, so get out there. Get yourself a tennis racket, pickleball racket, whatever. I guess probably the more mature way to end this episode would simply be to take cues from these people. Take cues from Abraham Lincoln from Nelson Mandela from Steve Jobs, from Roger Federer, and recognize that there is such an immense amount to be learned from those who are different than us, from those who, although they approach solving a problem in a different way. Are interested in a better tomorrow. They’re interested in better results. Are interested in leaving the world in a better place. This is, of course, assuming that we’re all being intellectually honest and being genuine actors and approaching things from the perspective of wanting to improve, leave the world better than it is that we found it. And I’m confident that that’s you, and I encourage you to to take that approach and to believe that those people that we maybe don’t see eye to eye on that they probably do share a lot of our values, and that is when we can bring people like that together, and we can listen to their thinking and their thoughts and incorporate it and potentially shift or build upon our current perspective and our current thinking and thoughts, then you have the value of diversity right there. Then diversity is truly your strength, and not just a bumper sticker. As always, do your part by doing your best. You.

george grombacher 16:00
So if I want my iPhone, and my Tesla and my Bitcoin to work, we need to get the metal out of the ground.

Pierre Leveille 16:07
Absolutely. Without it, we cannot do it.

george grombacher 16:13
Why? Why is there a Why has production been going down.

Pierre Leveille 16:21
Because the large mines that are producing most of the copper in the world, the grades are going down slowly they’re going there, they’re arriving near the end of life. So and of life of mines in general means less production. And in the past, at least 15 years, the exploration expenditure for copper were pretty low, because the price of copper was low. And when the price is low, companies are tending to not invest more so much in exploration, which is what we see today. It’s it’s, it’s not the way to look at it. Because nobody 15 years ago was able to predict that there would be a so massive shortage, or it’s so massive demand coming. But in the past five years, or let’s say since the since 10 years, we have seen that more and more coming. And then the by the time you react start exploring and there’s more money than then ever that is putting in put it in expression at the moment for copper at least. And what we see is that the it takes time, it could take up to 2025 years between the time you find a deposit that it gets in production. So but but the year the time is counted. So it’s it’s very important to so you will see company reopening old mines, what it will push also, which is not bad, it will force to two, it will force to find a it will force to find ways of recalibrating customer, you know the metals, that will be more and more important.

george grombacher 18:07
So finding, okay, so for lack of a better term recycling metals that are just sitting around somewhere extremely important. Yeah. And then going and going back to historic minds that maybe for lack of technology, or just lack of will or reasons, but maybe now because there’s such a demand, there’s an appetite to go back to those.

Pierre Leveille 18:33
Yes, but there will be a lot of failures into that for many reasons. But the ones that will be in that will resume mining it’s just going to be a short term temporary solution. No it’s it’s not going to be you need to find deposit that will that will operate 50 years you know at least it’s 25 to 50 years at least and an old mind that you do in production in general it’s less than 10 years.

george grombacher 19:03
Got it. Oh there we go. Up here. People are ready for your difference making tip What do you have for them

Pierre Leveille 19:14
You mean an investment or

george grombacher 19:17
whatever you’re into, you’ve got so much life experience with raising a family and doing business all over the world and having your kids go to school in Africa so a tip on copper or whatever you’re into.

Pierre Leveille 19:34
But there’s two things I like to see and I was telling my children many times and I always said you know don’t focus on what will bring you specifically money don’t think of Getting Rich. Think of doing what you what you like, what you feel your your your your your, you know you have been born to do so use your most you skills, do what you like, do what you wet well, and good things will happen to you. And I can see them grow in their life. And I can tell you that this is what happens. And sometimes you have setback like I had recently. But if we do things properly, if we do things that we like, and we liked that project, we were very passionate about that project, not only me, all my team, and if we do things properly, if we do things correctly, good things will happen. And we will probably get the project back had to go forward or we will find another big project that will be the launch of a new era. So that’s my most important tip in life. Do what you like, do it with your best scale and do it well and good things will happen.

george grombacher 20:49
Pierre Leveille 21:03
Thank you. I was happy to be with you to today.

george grombacher 21:06
Damn, tell us the websites and where where people can connect and find you.

Pierre Leveille 21:13
The it’s Deep South resources.com. So pretty simple.

george grombacher 21:18
Perfect. Well, if you enjoyed this as much as I did show up here your appreciation and share today’s show with a friend who also appreciate good ideas, go to deep south resources, calm and learn all about what they’re working on and track their progress.

Pierre Leveille 21:32
Thanks. Thanks, have a nice day.

george grombacher 21:36
And until next time, keep fighting the good fight. We’re all in this together.