Leading and Living Well with Kishshana Palmer

george grombacher 0:02
Kishshana Palmer is the foremost expert on the future of collaborative leadership and building thriving teams. She is the CEO of management. She’s international speaker, coach trainer. Welcome to show Kish.

Kishshana Palmer 0:14
Oh, happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

george grombacher 0:17
Yeah, excited to have you on tell us a little bit personalized more about your work, why you do what you do?

Kishshana Palmer 0:23
Oh my gosh. So the thing that I have to say these days is that and I know that lots of folks who are caregivers are going to identify with as I’m a brand new empty nester. And before folks go, Oh my gosh, how are you doing? I’m doing great. Okay. No, I did not have the same response that some folks have over there was no crying in the car, I was just like, go on butterfly. And so I am moved from New York City where I’m from born and raised to Atlanta. And so started a whole new chapter, write a book, because my best friend was, say, in my life, and I got to decide to kind of live out what I share with my clients every day. And that is in order to lead Well, you have got to live well. And all of us deserve to have the career we want. We deserve to have the life we want and create. And we deserve to be healthy AF while we’re doing it. And so I you know, I gotta live that out. And so, being a New Yorker growing up in Queens, you know, definitely a city girl. So this will make you laugh. I moved here in September. And so I’m excited, right, I finally have a little debt to myself. I’m gonna call Brian I got my little patio set. And I ran screaming every day from the swarm of wasps, okay, because there was a forest behind my house. It didn’t occur to me, by home, with the forest in the backyard, because I had not been exposed to that ever. So this is like hilarious adventures in, you know, part two 2.0 of my life.

george grombacher 2:01
So many new new I think I feel like Adventures is the perfect way to describe that. So that is we’ve we’ve we’ve got a handful of podcasts to, to go over just just right there. So we’re gonna have to have you back on to talk about moving from the big city to I guess just a smaller city becoming an empty nester and becoming a beekeeper or a bee exterminator, however, it actually worked out. But so helping people to live the lives that they want in order to lead well, you need to live well. How are we doing with that?

Kishshana Palmer 2:35
Oh, you know, it’s a lot harder to practice it than it is to talk about it. One of the hardest things that I navigate with my clients is that they they just have an idea about how they’re supposed to be whether that was because their first in their family, their oldest or the middle, whatever their placement is in family and that family dynamic. And a lot of times over the course of us, you know becoming educated or being in the workforce or starting your own business, you kind of forget that you get to decide on so many big decisions because you get stuck on all the little tiny decisions like yours. Have you ever gotten stuck on like, so what am I supposed to wear today, and you’re like to heck with it on his T shirt. So my DS ready to go. And so one of the things that has been really helpful for me to both live into and also to share with my clients is you have got to decide what are the decisions that you just do not want to make anymore, because they stretch you all the way up that as the straw every time and to really prioritize the things that are going to be able to have the biggest impact. And that typically starts with you. And that’s what we run away from, we don’t want to deal with it. We’re like, Ah, you got to slow down, I got to do this, I got to what I want to do it. And so we busy ourselves with so many other things so that we do not have to deal with ourselves. And I think that that for me that balance between understanding how to live well and what that means for you, and how you lead Well, and what that means for your team, even in your families are so interconnected. And I just don’t want us to disaggregate them anymore.

george grombacher 4:17
I think that that is 100% true. And I to answer your question, I certainly have have been guilty of letting little minut things keep me from focusing on the big thing, because I think to your point, I only have so much bandwidth. I can’t I can’t think about everything all the time. I

Kishshana Palmer 4:35
can I and I think that many of us think we can. And so I’m definitely a high achiever. I was definitely the person like Oh, first in class, well, if you’re going to be this, you should be first you know, like this. See, matter of fact, to me, I didn’t consider myself to be competitive because I felt like I’m my only competition. So as long as I do my best. There you have it. But what ends up happening is that over time nothing is good enough. And even the idea of throttling down from let’s see, for those of us who are seasoned enough to know how to drive a stick shift, okay? Throttling down from six to third, okay, we know what that drop down feels like that cocked back, right? Even from our ability to be able not to stop, just to throttle down, makes you want to pull all your hair out and run for the hills. Because what does that say about me? If I actually do less?

george grombacher 5:32
That is something that I struggle with. And I’m trying to figure that out as we speak. So I’m glad. I’m glad you’re here. I’m fine of calling myself a human doing instead of a human being, what do you think about that? Listen,

Kishshana Palmer 5:46
as long as I can borrow, attribution, I love that. But I want to stop doing and sometimes I feel like we are. Gosh, we’re like in love with the idea of doing we’re enamored by it. It’s like the movie we want to watch. Ooh, look at that. Look at me do like what does that do for us when we really don’t actually have a sense of accomplishment? On the other side of done? There’s just more to do. What’s right. What would it look like if you were able to model what it’s like to just be able to be? And so right now there, there’s all of this, like, you know, conversation between blog posts and articles and Instagram influencers around neuro divergence, and around really figuring out boundaries and around what it’s like to undo and unlearn. How many of us, particularly for US base grew up. And the thing that I’m noticing that’s overlapping in that conversation that’s happening is that folks are realizing they had been sold a bill of goods. But once you realize that kind of like in The Matrix, once you take the pill, then and trying to figure out is how to get focused on bigger to understand and takes up for themselves. What then that’s not formulaic in that oh, kushana said, we’re going to do a plus b plus c. And while I will have a new thing, but more like, what actually matters, for me in the fabric of the life that I am building, in this season, with this level of responsibilities I have, that I will feel like I’m doing life powerfully. And that looks different for each person. And so I’ve started to come up with some things that I think folks will be able to lean into that feels a part of just regular everyday life. So nothing super overly scientific, although I love science, nothing super theoretical, because we are tired and exhausted. So who has time to be thinking about theory right now, okay, I really want to snack. And how do I get to action things when I’m stressed, and I’m tired. So that’s kind of where I am. That’s where my work is. Now. It’s what my writing is now and where my coaching and advising is right now.

george grombacher 7:50
I think that that is extremely timely, because I do feel like we’re just sort of overwhelmed and awash in other people’s priorities living under who knows just other other human beings, assumptions, and all the different aspects of our lives from the way that I grew up and the city I live in, and the street I live in, and my co workers and everything else. And do I know what really matters to me? And I don’t think that most of us do. I know that I’ve been guilty of that. Absolutely.

Kishshana Palmer 8:20
And I think it was fortuitous that my daughter going to college. I didn’t have an existential crisis. But I definitely was like, Well, now that mom is not at the front of my title anymore. And I am no longer an Uber driver. I have retired. Now, you know, and that question made me sort of like, okay, this Ana don’t spin out. You know who you are. The question is, are you courageous enough to be her. Because when you’re used to being the student, being a teacher, being a good employee, being the person that has the reputation, whatever your it is, whatever role that you have kind of been casted and decided to play. Even if you know on the inside that that is really not who you are, you might be getting rewarded for the role you’re playing. And so when you get to a certain stage in your life, you’re like, sheesh, no two eyes. So you begin to have these feelings or it’s like when you were on the playground, and you’re like, oh my god, am I gonna be the last one pick for kickball. We still have those experiences as adults. But the difference is to kind of hide under family and realize, you know, hide behind our 401 K’s our mortgages, bills life. And we don’t feel like we have the freedom to try to live differently, which is why we see people who do we have couple of folks, that couldn’t be me also a little bit jealous also how irresponsible Rosante right. We could lean into that a little bit there.

george grombacher 10:02
What if, if we had the courage? If we were to give ourselves the space to really think about, what is it that I want? What matters most to me? And then recognizing, okay, I can actually do that. But am I courageous enough to step into that to take those first couple of steps to do that? What if, what if, what if what if.

Kishshana Palmer 10:28
And remember, I remember as a kid, like, I love to read, I feel do so if you this is like a tiniest snapshot of my huge office of books and so far that upstairs, downstairs everywhere. And I remember I used to get lost in The Lion, the Witch in the wardrobe, World of Narnia, right, and like what could be when you stepped into that closet and into that world. And I think that we don’t allow ourselves enough wonder, as adults, because we are told that we got to be serious, and you got to be focused, and you got to you got things. But what if you could still have that same sense of wonder in the way you live your life within the structure of being an adult. And so that brings me to what I talked about. And I had to kind of fiddle with it. And I pressure tested it with the teenagers. So that’s how I noticed when young people co sign it on the tic tac, then it works. So five points of wellness, I call it my five star wellness plan. So there are five aspects of wellness. This is not kushana News, this is pretty well researched. And so that’s your physical health. That is your emotional health. For those of us who have a spiritual center, that’s your spiritual health. That is your financial health and your community health. So rather than come up with some rubric on how to be happy or not, I thought what if we figure out at each stage of your life, where the percentages lie on how you are healthy? Are you well, so for me, I’m in my mid 40s, I’m a woman of a certain age, I know that for me to have good physical wellness, I gotta move. So I’m gonna certainly have to go to the gym. I’m not You’re not gonna hear me say any of that. Even though shout out to my friends who do CrossFit and Pilates. I’m on both ends of the spectrum. But it’s about movement. That’s my physical health. Am I getting my blood pumping every single day? And then for my mental health? Am I taking things in on social media? Am I really am I meditating, whatever it is, for me, that allows me to say, am I well saved for my spiritual health? For my financial health, I’m doing that right now. Oh, my gosh, I got to do a whole wellness checkup and check in. And then Community Health, I moved to a whole new city. So all of my friends and my network and my closest girlfriends who will just pop over, they’re not close by anymore. So how do you reassert community wellness, are you in the company of others across different areas of your life, that buoy who you are, we get to decide. And so if you kind of just boil it down to your five star wellness, what looks like five star for you Taurus not gonna look like that for me, but we are both gonna feel that we are swimmingly well. And that kind of, you know, chest out, shoulders back and down, makes you feel good, you’re smiling from the inside out, you then will go out and you will be able to have impact on others because you have started with yourself.

george grombacher 13:30
That makes a lot of sense to me. I think sometimes, when we start talking about you need to think about what matters to you, or what’s most important. It’s way too big and way too abstract. So having those five points that we can sort of self assess and figure out okay, in this area, how important is that to me right now and then moving forward. I think that’s really helpful.

Kishshana Palmer 13:51
Absolutely. And I just decided, you know, I talk a lot about everyday leaders, because I do believe that you can learn leadership skills, but many of us have leadership talents, all of us do not have leadership gifts, some people are just born with the stuff. But you can adopt different ways of understanding how to impact others, and how to set an example and how to give people space to show up as their fullest self. That’s why emotional intelligence is so important. That’s why cultural intelligence is so important. But most importantly, you got to be a knowledge of self right you have and a lot of us are walking around in a daze just unaware and unwilling to really lean into who you are. And so a lot of my practice, particularly with my executive coaches on clients is really around getting back to that best sense getting very clear on that person and not in a very like, Oh gosh kushana room I’ve again at this but know like in a really grounded way. How do you tap back into that part of yourself that was so self assured and so confident because you knew you had the eight, whatever your it was, and then how do you magnify that out, so that you’re able to set a good example for others to feel competent enough to do the same. To me, that is a different way of looking at leadership. And that is a different way about having widespread impact, which I think is the responsibility of leaders to do.

george grombacher 15:21
I think that that really resonates with me. Oftentimes, when we’re looking around and just paying attention, there’s so many terrible things that we’re seeing. There’s so many terrible things in the United in my city and your city, in the United States in the world and everything else, and oh, my goodness, what in the world can I possibly do about any of that, but you’ve just laid out what I can do and what I need to do if we’re to find our way out of the mess that we found ourselves in, it’s going to start with me and you.

Kishshana Palmer 15:53
And so I think that, you know, particularly in the US, you know, there’s a lot around rugged individualism, you know, I am the person that makes it happen, oh, we’re only me who did that thing, if I only focus on myself. And that is not what I’m suggesting. I think that there’s a place for it. But it also can be very dangerous. What I’m saying is wake up. Like, we need to get out of zombie mode, we need to get away with me, because we can’t fix it all. We can’t fix anything, wake up. And that I think, to me is so so critical. In being a dialed in leader, you’ve got to be awake, you’ve got to be focused, you’ve got to be willing to be vulnerable in a way that allows the people who look up to you who look across you sit beside you to go, I see you. Okay, looks a little scary. Okay, but no sign. Let’s try it again. Let me try to. And to keep that collective movement going, we’ll start to see some really authentic outgrowths of innovation, things that are not manufactured things that don’t feel like just the Race to the Top. And I think that it’ll take some time. But I definitely think it’s possible.

george grombacher 17:04
Agreed. I know that we all resonate when we see somebody who is, for lack of a better term, their authentic self, it’s attractive, it’s inspiring, we want to be around those people, we want to be more like them. And I feel like that’s a lot of what you’re talking about.

Kishshana Palmer 17:20
Absolutely. So there’s this Instagram page I follow called advanced fashion. And I just have to tell y’all, these, okay, they are fierce, women and men have quit for all type of folk. And they are people who think they’re eccentric, or that they’re out there. But I don’t see that I see folks who decided that they’re going to be bold for themselves, because that’s what makes them happy. So oftentimes, people who spend time with me will say, Oh, China, you’re so funny. And I’ll remark Well, I’m just here for my own personal amusement, because it’s true. And so the idea of like, living into who you are, the reason I bring that page up is because these are folks who always might go, oh, my gosh, they’re not wearing great, white, black, navy blue. They have the nerve to have on texture and fabric. And and I’m like, Absolutely, don’t you feel curious, when you see folks who are living into who they really are? Don’t you smile a little bit, even if you’re like, I don’t know, if I’m staring there, but you’re looking. And the purpose is not just to look, but it is to me to be sort of a homing being to, you get to do that, too. It does not have to hurt both, does not have to be dangerous. It doesn’t have to be a Disney experience. And let me just be clear, though, I hope I’m not painting a PG experience, because lord knows life has some nc 17 moments. But what it does say is that there’s not one way to do life. And that to be dialed in and invested in your own life allows others to be dialed in and invested in yours.

george grombacher 18:59
I think that that is a beautiful thing. And you mentioned that we deserve to be healthy. I think that I think that we’re all worthy of living the lives that we want to world deserving of living lives that we want, but it comes down to what you’ve been talking about. We’re not entitled to it. So we need to do the work. We need to start walking towards that life.

Kishshana Palmer 19:22
And I will go a step further and say not only do we deserve it, but we have a responsibility. Because Because our young people are watching, it’s going to always come back. So ever since I was a kid I’ve always done work with our young people, particularly when I was a young person because I really felt like folks are not listening to us. They’re not paying attention. Well young people right now. They’re like, what do you want to listen to us or not? We are here. And so I have my own young person and I knew if I did not make some clear shifts in my own behavior that rightly or wrongly she was gonna pick some of them up And it’s not perfect, she’s gonna make her own mistakes because she not made my mistakes. And so if I wanted to be able to set an example, that means I had to really look at how I was leading myself. So if I’m tired, not sleeping, eating crap food, and I’m not judging folks on what they eat, if that makes your body feel crazy, it’s crap. I don’t care what it is. If I’m not operating in a way that makes me feel like I have sat in the good the good sun and gotten a, you know, gotten some vitamin D and gotten some sunshine in my system, that I’m not doing the things I need to do, to make sure that I’m at my very best. And I have a responsibility as somebody who runs a company, as somebody who helps others with that, and as a mom, to be able to set that example. And that to me is really important for my values. And if that’s not somebody else’s value, I get it. Also figure out what your values actually are, and then listen to those. Well

george grombacher 20:50
said. Mukesh, thank you so much for coming on. Where can people learn more about you? How can they engage with you salutely

Kishshana Palmer 20:57
So if you want to learn more about compassionate coaching, which is what we do at management, if you want to learn about really thinking about holistic leadership, and how to be able to bring yourself to work in a way that honors who you are, and honors your bottom line, then I encourage you all to look at management. And that’s it my NT, that CEO me put a fresh take on management and leadership and if you want to work with me directly, then go to kushana palmer.com get started and one of my team members will be happy to get us started working together. Excellent.

george grombacher 21:30
Well if you enjoyed as much as I did, showcase your appreciation and share today’s show with a friend who also appreciates good ideas. If you are into the or interested in the compassionate coaching go to Manage mint.co Ma Ma GE m i n t.co. And for all other things, Kesh, go to kushana Palmer KISHSH, a PA lm er.com and start taking those steps to the life that you really, really want. Thanks again cash for having me. Till next time, remember, do your part of doing your best

george grombacher 16:00
So if I want my iPhone, and my Tesla and my Bitcoin to work, we need to get the metal out of the ground.

Pierre Leveille 16:07
Absolutely. Without it, we cannot do it.

george grombacher 16:13
Why? Why is there a Why has production been going down.

Pierre Leveille 16:21
Because the large mines that are producing most of the copper in the world, the grades are going down slowly they’re going there, they’re arriving near the end of life. So and of life of mines in general means less production. And in the past, at least 15 years, the exploration expenditure for copper were pretty low, because the price of copper was low. And when the price is low, companies are tending to not invest more so much in exploration, which is what we see today. It’s it’s, it’s not the way to look at it. Because nobody 15 years ago was able to predict that there would be a so massive shortage, or it’s so massive demand coming. But in the past five years, or let’s say since the since 10 years, we have seen that more and more coming. And then the by the time you react start exploring and there’s more money than then ever that is putting in put it in expression at the moment for copper at least. And what we see is that the it takes time, it could take up to 2025 years between the time you find a deposit that it gets in production. So but but the year the time is counted. So it’s it’s very important to so you will see company reopening old mines, what it will push also, which is not bad, it will force to two, it will force to find a it will force to find ways of recalibrating customer, you know the metals, that will be more and more important.

george grombacher 18:07
So finding, okay, so for lack of a better term recycling metals that are just sitting around somewhere extremely important. Yeah. And then going and going back to historic minds that maybe for lack of technology, or just lack of will or reasons, but maybe now because there’s such a demand, there’s an appetite to go back to those.

Pierre Leveille 18:33
Yes, but there will be a lot of failures into that for many reasons. But the ones that will be in that will resume mining it’s just going to be a short term temporary solution. No it’s it’s not going to be you need to find deposit that will that will operate 50 years you know at least it’s 25 to 50 years at least and an old mind that you do in production in general it’s less than 10 years.

george grombacher 19:03
Got it. Oh there we go. Up here. People are ready for your difference making tip What do you have for them

Pierre Leveille 19:14
You mean an investment or

george grombacher 19:17
whatever you’re into, you’ve got so much life experience with raising a family and doing business all over the world and having your kids go to school in Africa so a tip on copper or whatever you’re into.

Pierre Leveille 19:34
But there’s two things I like to see and I was telling my children many times and I always said you know don’t focus on what will bring you specifically money don’t think of Getting Rich. Think of doing what you what you like, what you feel your your your your your, you know you have been born to do so use your most you skills, do what you like, do what you wet well, and good things will happen to you. And I can see them grow in their life. And I can tell you that this is what happens. And sometimes you have setback like I had recently. But if we do things properly, if we do things that we like, and we liked that project, we were very passionate about that project, not only me, all my team, and if we do things properly, if we do things correctly, good things will happen. And we will probably get the project back had to go forward or we will find another big project that will be the launch of a new era. So that’s my most important tip in life. Do what you like, do it with your best scale and do it well and good things will happen.

george grombacher 20:49
Pierre Leveille 21:03
Thank you. I was happy to be with you to today.

george grombacher 21:06
Damn, tell us the websites and where where people can connect and find you.

Pierre Leveille 21:13
The it’s Deep South resources.com. So pretty simple.

george grombacher 21:18
Perfect. Well, if you enjoyed this as much as I did show up here your appreciation and share today’s show with a friend who also appreciate good ideas, go to deep south resources, calm and learn all about what they’re working on and track their progress.

Pierre Leveille 21:32
Thanks. Thanks, have a nice day.

george grombacher 21:36
And until next time, keep fighting the good fight. We’re all in this together.