Being Yourself with Kelli Thompson

george grombacher 0:01
Kelly Thompson is a leadership and executive coach. She is author and speaker. Her newest book is closing the confidence gap. Welcome to show Kelly.

Kelli Thompson 0:10
Thanks, George. Happy to be here.

george grombacher 0:12
excited to have you on. Tell us a little about your personal lives more about your work and why you do what you do.

Speaker 1 0:18
Yeah, so personal life. I’m married to my Aspen awesome husband, Jason, we are empty nesters we have an adult child. So that’s been a new thing for us this year. But you know, when we go to work, I’m actually a corporate veteran. So I spent, you know, over 15, almost 20 years working in the banking, financial services industries, mostly male dominated. And so I knew what it was like to be one of the only women in the rooms where decisions were made. And to be quite frank, I struggled with a lot of doubt and impostor feelings and speaking up and feeling awkward. But you know, when I was in banking, in that time, we didn’t talk about this sort of stuff. And so, you know, as I progressed throughout my career, and eventually went off on my own to be a leadership and executive coach running my own training and consulting practice, you know, I, especially after the pandemic, when my business took a big hit, I asked myself, gosh, what would I do for free? What would I do if I wasn’t making any money because during the pandemic, I wasn’t making a lot of money. And that reflected a lot in my time of being in corporate America, where I loved to coach women to speak up and negotiate because I spent a lot of time in human resources. And that’s really where I decided to focus in and laser in on my coaching and speaking practice was helping women advanced to the rooms where decisions are made, you know, helping them advocate speak up, you know, find themselves oftentimes, you know, as a confident leader in those rooms where they might be an only and that’s ultimately what led me to write the book as well, closing the confidence gap, because it addresses both just some of the systemic issues, I think that cause a lot of doubt and impostor feelings, and women and people of color through lack of representations or systems or policies. But it also gives the practical tools to thrive in spite of those systems, because we aren’t going to change the systems overnight. Dang it. Oh, we should try. And so that’s how I spend the majority of my time today now is through coaching, training, those sorts of things.

george grombacher 2:02
And did you make the right decision? I

Speaker 1 2:05
did. You know, sometimes, my clients will be like, Hey, would you ever come and work for us? And I’m like, I would be your most terrible employee, I would not work the hours you want me to work? I was like, I have my own schedule. I’m like, I am officially unemployable. I love being my own boss, with all of its challenges. I couldn’t go back. I’m just not fit for corporate consumption anymore. Yeah,

george grombacher 2:27
I certainly appreciate that. So there’s a lot of lot of really important and a lot of really challenging things that you just laid out male dominated. Spaces, companies. We all struggle with doubt and impostor syndrome, at least I certainly do. And a lot of the people that I talk to do. But that being said, I am rarely the only in the room. So it’s difficult for me to get my brain around it. Because I’m, you know, I’m, I’m a white guy. And that just is what it is. So we have systemic issues. How much? How much time do you spend thinking about that versus equipping people with the practical tools?

Speaker 1 3:18
That’s a really good question. You know, I would say, I always spend, because this is where my strategic nature comes in. I’m always spending, I would say about 25% of my time, just looking at what’s happening in the external environment. Meaning, like, my Google Alerts are set up, you know, in a way that’s like, Okay, who is the client that I’m serving? What’s happening, and what’s important to these individuals. And again, my clients are many times senior leader women, but I do also work with organizations who are committed to having, you know, more diverse representation. And so yeah, but I would say about 25% of my time is thinking and scanning the environment, what’s happening, what’s changing in the workplace, what new policies are coming up, what are companies concerned about? And then I would say, I, then I spend about 75% of the time actually coaching individuals. And so whether that be through one on one coaching, I offer group programs, and so maybe they’re coming to me in a group, or you know, companies hire me to come in and speak to their teams. And so we may be talking about some of those issues. So if I had to ballpark it, I’d be like, 2575, I believe it’s a both and thing we have to tackle.

george grombacher 4:24
Yeah, for sure. It’s just you know, you put yourself in the situation, I try to put myself in the shoes of some of the people that that you’re probably working with and helping. It’s like I can be probably pretty frustrating, disempowered and disengaged. If I look around and say, Oh, it’s all stacked against me. There’s nothing I can do. I am I’m screwed. Versus okay. I recognize that things have been the way that they are and things are changing. It’s moving a little bit more slowly, but I’m still going to do these things and keep progressing.

Speaker 1 4:56
That’s exactly why I wrote the book is because I think it could B, I see that there’s two world views, right? There’s the world view of exactly what you just said, we could say the system is broken, people are doing this wrong, and I am very angry at the system. Okay, fair enough. But like, let’s just remember that, like, I always say, women didn’t even have the right to have their own bank account or own credit till 1974. So this is new, like, this is like my mother’s generation. And I mean, if you think about the dynamics of the workplace, you know, men worked and women stayed home, the fact that more women are entering the workplace, the fact that there’s more women in higher education than men, this is a new thing. So it’s not like we’re going to change this overnight. So like, let’s not get upset at a system that is continually unfolding and changing over time. And you’re exactly right, a lot of the things that I teach are like, how do we step up and own our power, and do the things that we can do in spite of the systems that we’re in? Because it gives you a much more empowered, creative mindset when it says, Okay, I don’t love this, I don’t love that I’m the only I don’t love that I look up in my organization and see, you know, a leadership team that you know, is, frankly, all white men, sometimes we see that, but that is the system that we have come into. So what can I do inside of this system to make the impact that I want to make to see the changes that I want to make? You know, am I aligning myself with cultures and organizations that value, the things that I value? Those are all things that are within your control? And that’s where I really like to spend my time and energy is focusing on those places that you can make an impact.

george grombacher 6:26
That makes sense to me. What are there certain areas that you look at?

Speaker 1 6:35
Yeah, so I would say it’s not so much certain areas that I look at, I take like kind of a two fold approach. Like when I’m working with organizations, and organizations bring me in, and they want me to coach some of their women leaders or even just work with their leadership teams, they know what my mission is, like they’re very, I, you know, I might be coming in just later today, and presenting to an organization that is a mixed gender audience. They know my mission. But the thing is, is I’m usually working with companies who are aligned to my mission, they recognize the value of having a diverse leadership team, they know that that brings them better innovation, better results, more revenue, Bloomberg, Deloitte, all of these, you know, companies have, you know, found that research, I typically don’t spend my time trying to convince companies that they need more diversity, that’s just not, that’s just not where I spend my energy. I’m working already with people who were aligned to my mission, who see it, because I just don’t have time to convince folks, like, well let the market take care of, you know, their their problems, because number one, their revenues might be impacted. The other thing that we see a lot is that, you know, at least in my clients, if my clients are job searching, and they go, and they see company, they’re excited about, they open the about us page, and they see a team of eight C suite leaders, and they all look the same. Many times they don’t apply for that job. So their talent pipelines are impacted. So I’m usually spending my time working with organizations who are already aligned to my mission. And when I’m working with my private clients, I mean, they’re, you know, I’m typically working with with women leaders who are working to grow and advance their careers and move to those higher level positions so that they can impact more decisions. So

george grombacher 8:10
for the individual client, there’s inner work, there’s, for lack of a better term outer work, I think that how we present ourselves to the world certainly matters. And then the way I think about things certainly matters. Is there a way that you segment that do you get down to a granular as this is the, the way I present myself the kind of clothes that I wear, and the way I style my hair, my makeup, and then my thought process is that all of those things is that none of them, I

Speaker 1 8:36
would say some of those things, I don’t get into the hardcore like image, I actually have my best friend as a as a stylist, and I send those folks to her. But here’s what I do focus on. So my philosophy is called Clarity and competence. And so when I’m working with someone, one on one, the first thing that we focus on is clarity. And the very first thing that I make all of them do is we define what our values are, we define what we stand for as a leader, because I think sometimes values get a bad rap. They’re on a company’s web page. It’s just marketing language, but we don’t follow through on it. But the way that I define values is like, what do you want to be known for as a leader? Like when you have to make a really tough, unpopular decision? What values are you leaning on? So that when you get criticized for that decision, because you will, that you feel good about standing firm? And nope, I made this because it’s in alignment with my values? How do I communicate hard news and alignment with my values? How am I making sure that I’m working for an organization that values what I value, so that when times get tough, like I still feel good about working there? And I often tell my clients you often know what an organization values but where they spend their money. So that can help you really identify what’s a good fit for me career wise. So we start with values, what do I stand for, as a leader? The next thing that we do have, I don’t know how familiar you are with the Enneagram but I have everybody do an Enneagram assessment. This gives them some really awesome insight into what motivates them what their strengths are, but it also gives them some really eye opening information about where their blind spots are. And kind of what could be having them as a tail as for what could be having them by the tail as a leader. And, you know, holding them back from really like moving into, you know, this highest leadership self that they could be and show up as work. And then the third that clarity piece is I do a unique genius 360 assessment with everyone. And so that gives them some clues onto what’s that makes them unique as a leader, because I think all too often, especially when I’m working, I see it actually with men, because I have coached men, but I see it with women, and they feel like they need to show up, like the leader that was there before them to be successful. And so this just really helps bring them clarity on what is that unique thing that only you can offer? So between the values, the Enneagram, the unique genius, they really get a lot of clarity on who I am as a leader, what do I stand for? What does that mean, in terms of how I’m going to show up? How I’m going to make decisions? And how like, do I lead with my unique strengths. So I stop all this compare and despair business. And then typically, the remaining part of our time together is spent on confidence. And that’s just working through the stuff that comes up when you are a leader, I got a new manager, I have a direct report that is struggling, I’m applying for this job. I’m not getting the promotion that I want, I’m overwhelmed. How do I delegate? I mean, how do I present myself? Well, in this meeting, I mean, you get it like, that’s just when this stuff comes up. And so there we’re working on strategies and tools to help them, you know, be the clear and confident self they want to be in those moments.

george grombacher 11:31
I think that that’s I think that that’s great. And it makes all the sense in the world to me. The the conceptual idea of it, it is so hard, I found it to be so hard when somebody says, you know, just just be yourself, it’s like, well, that’s a lot harder than I think we talk about. And I imagine it’s a lot harder for other people to because society tells us we’re supposed to operate a certain way. And to your point, it was 1974 that women got bank accounts for goodness sakes. And my mom tells me stories about how she couldn’t play sports and the world is very different. So all of a sudden, I’m supposed to be myself. When a minute ago, I wasn’t supposed to be myself I was supposed to be operating in a certain way.

Speaker 1 12:17
Absolutely, it is hard. Because I think one of the things I work through specifically with my clients, and I’ve heard this too, I’ll just tell you my own story is my whole life. I had been told I was too direct, too blunt to unemotional. Now, if I were a man, this would not be a problem. My dad is that way, he celebrated, right? But remember, sometimes, and I’m gonna flip this the other way here today in just a second. Sometimes when we don’t ascribe to certain gender norms, like being direct, being assertive being bossy, we get labeled as such, and as exactly as you’re saying, and so, you know, it’s like, I feel like I can’t show up as myself, because I’m self censoring all the time. I shouldn’t be that way people kept telling me to tone it down. But when I’m working with clients, I’m primarily working with women. But I often ask them, like, how exhausting is it to constantly self censor yourself. But here’s a little secret. I do have in some cases, I work with male leaders. I recently had one. And we were working actually on just his confidence and assertiveness to lead. And we kind of did this same exercise. And one of the things that he told me was that he felt like his collaborative pneus. Or his, like, slow, conscientious decision making was not one of his strengths, because he did not fit some of the stereotypical masculine male leadership norms that were like, celebrated in that company. And so because of that, like he was really having kind of a little bit of a confidence crisis. And so one of the things that we talked about was actually, how is your collaborative or slow, deliberative, you know, decision making nature actually your greatest strength? What is it allowed you to do? Because you are this? How do you excel at the things that you’re doing? And so, you know, when you don’t fit into typical gender norms, I think it can really impact your confidence. And so where I spend my time and energy with my clients, no matter their gender, is number one, ask him the question. So for me, because I am direct, what does that allowed me to do? Well allows me to communicate really hard information sometimes. Because I am direct where has that been an asset? Well, you know, I’ve been overseeing HR, I’ve been a coach. Sometimes I have to, especially as an HR person, I have to tell people hard things that nobody wants to tell people you have to let people know that their benefits are changing, or sometimes there’s been a reorganization or we’ve made a hard, you know, decision, that’s an asset and those times, however, what I really coach folks do is to say, Okay, well, we don’t need to be direct and blunt or overly assertive for its sake, because sometimes that can cause disconnection. Same thing with my client who was like very Slow, deliberative collaborative decision maker, sometimes when we overdo that it’s not helpful either. So how do we blend these approaches in alignment with our values. So this goes back to some of the values work I’ve done. My core values are love, respect, family, creativity and learning. And so when I think about being direct, I will never not be direct. I was born direct, I came out direct. I’ve been direct since I was three months old. So my mom says, so it’s like, okay, well, how can I be direct, and loving? Because that’s one of my values. How can I be direct and respectful? So when I’m working with my clients, sometimes in a coaching conversation, I asked permission to share some maybe difficult observations that are hard to hear, but that may help their performance. And so how do I deliver that, you know, direct, that with a lot of love direct with a lot of respect. And so, you know, I think sometimes when we think about how do we show up as ourselves, even when it doesn’t look like a certain mold? Well, we can use those strengths, in the opportunities where we see we need to use them, but how do we blend them in alignment with our values, so that we are using it in a way that’s moving everyone forward, not creating disconnection and disharmony, etc. But like, I also tell my clients like, Hey, listen, this is why it’s so important to know what you stand for as a leader. Because sometimes people aren’t going to like your approach. And that’s okay. And you just have to be okay with like, not, I’d like knowing that not everybody is going to love you all of the time, you know, and that’s just part of life, and it’s part of leadership. But when you know what you stand for, as a leader, it makes it easier to lead in a way that feels authentic to you knowing it’s just not going to make everybody happy all the time.

george grombacher 16:42
Do these kinds of conversations can always be tricky. Do you think that that’s a more female characteristic of people pleasing and wanting to make everybody happy all the time? Or does that? Do men do that to?

Speaker 1 16:55
You know, you can say that it is, however, I’ve seen it across the board. It just shows up in different ways. So I might see women, people, please in terms of like, saying yes to things when they probably should be saying no, yeah. But I’ve also seen and I’d be curious, if you did if I could flip the tables on you to see if you people please at all, because I’ve seen my male clients avoid giving hard feedback, because they don’t want to sever a connection. Like I actually talked to a CEO recently, where he self admittedly, he goes, sometimes I think I try to keep my teams happy by withholding public critical feedback I should have given three months ago. So I think we all do it. It’s just the way it sneaks out in different ways. I don’t know, what’s been your experience with that. But

george grombacher 17:45
yeah, certainly. It’s one I tried to pay really close attention to, for lack of a better term cultural issues, even though cultural issues become business issues. And one of the things that really sticks out to me is when I hear black people talking about well, I like code, I talk in codes or have different codes. And I think that just in the context of this is the way that I talked to my co workers this way, I talked to my family this way, talk to my friends. So I have to be showing up these different ways. I’m like, Well, that’s what I do, too, which is why it’s hard to just be myself, because there’s certain ways I talked to my teachers when I was a student. And if I come in contact with a police officer, I’m going to talk to that person. Or if I’m with a girl, I’m going to talk to her a different way. So everything you’re talking about really resonates with me, I think that it is something that we all struggle with, I just I don’t know if women skew more towards that than men do, just kind of in general. But it goes back to why it’s so important that I know myself. And that I’m not just trying to act in a certain way that I think I as an executive or a C suite person ought to be acting and want to act like myself in these situations.

Speaker 1 19:01
That could be a really fun study. I’m sure there’s probably if I googled it hard enough or set up some Google Alerts, we could find some gender based studies on who conforms or adapts or appeases more at work. But that could be fun, some fun research. Yeah, homework for all the listeners, for sure.

george grombacher 19:19
But getting down to what those what your true values are and what yours are, and what you’re really good at. It’s kind of like the exercise you went through. And that’s one of the benefits of COVID, which I don’t know, there’s too many of them. But it allowed us to question things.

Speaker 1 19:36
So it is absolutely I mean, you know, during COVID You know, like many folks who are in maybe the coaching, speaking or any industry that has to do with your money comes from being with people. It took a huge hit. And so I mean, I watched over the course of Gosh 60 days 80 to 90% of my annual revenues go away and I was only a year into my business. So I was already like, let’s be real like Tinder, like, what the heck am I doing and then all my money is going away. But you’re right. Like when there is no money coming in, it really forces you to evaluate, why am I doing this? What matters to me? And if I’m not making any money, like, what would I do for free? Because I literally feel like I’m doing that for free. And you’re right, that just cleared out everything in terms of what was important. And if I’m going to continue down this entrepreneurship journey, like what am I doing it for? Because right now, I’m not doing it for any money, because it is tough. So, yeah, when it was a tough year, cleansing, yeah,

george grombacher 20:33
that’s why we do retreats. That’s why it’s so cathartic to stare at a mountain or stare at the ocean, just kind of create that headspace for getting down to our back to what really matters and what our preferences really are and what we believe to be the most important things. That’s where we need to get to. Absolutely,

Speaker 1 20:54
I’m a firm believer in that. I mean, it’s easy for me, and perhaps for you to say, oh, take two weeks off, take a retreat. But I do really encourage even my corporate clients to do that. Because one of the things that I find is that they just react to all the meetings on their calendar and all the requests that come into their inbox. And it doesn’t really allow them to use their strategic thinking brain. And as they accelerate in the organization, setting aside that time to be strategic is really important, whether it’s a no meeting Monday, no meeting Monday morning, or there’s a certain time of the week where they have that you and I are recording in the summer, and I’m just coming up on the time where I take off two weeks at the same time, every summer, I take off two weeks at the same time at the end of every year for exactly just that, because it’s amazing. And we’re going to we’re mountain people. So we go to the mountains to do the sorts of things that we say the air is thinner, so you can think clearer up there. But it’s just so important, because all my creative ideas, so much of the clarity comes when I’m not thinking about work. And I know you could probably write a soliloquy on that, but it’s absolutely true. And so I really encourage my corporate clients to use the vacation they’ve been given and find that strategic pocket in their week, every week to be that proactive strategic thing, because you can’t be strategic when your inboxes firing and you’re just running from meeting to meeting to different sides of the brain can’t it’s hard to do it at the same time. Yeah.

george grombacher 22:11
What a wonderful way to close our conversation. That was something I mean, we do spend so much time doing and very little time, for lack of a better term training and practicing. And that space does, in a way, kind of give us that opportunity. So we just need space to be able to think think our thoughts and unwind and decompress a little bit, Kelly,

Speaker 1 22:34
absolutely. And that’s all just land that’s a huge thing I coach my clients on is as you accelerate in the organization, you have to shift from high achiever to strategic leader and that comes by delegating things to folks that are no longer development opportunity for you. Because if you are still doing and getting all your dopamine hits from the doing, you can’t pause and think strategically and create the long term visions for the organization that’s required of that level of role. So wholeheartedly agree,

george grombacher 23:01
love it. How do you move from high achiever to strategic leader? That is the question that Kelly is going to help you to answer. Kelly, thanks so much for coming on. Where can people learn more about you? How can they engage? Where can they wait? Where can they get their copy of closing the confidence gap? Yeah, closing

Speaker 1 23:18
the confidence gap is available anywhere books are sold. Folks love Amazon. And if you are an audible listener, I do read the audible folks really love the audible version so you can head over there. I mostly hang out on LinkedIn and I’m at forward slash Kelly Rae Thompson. Same thing with Instagram. You can also find me and any of my free downloads on my website at Kelly Rae thompson.com Excellent.

george grombacher 23:40
If you enjoyed as much as I did, she’ll kill your appreciation. share today’s show with a friend who also appreciates good ideas go to Kelly Rae Thompson ke L L I R A E thompson.com. Find her on LinkedIn as well and then pick up your copy of closing the confidence gap wherever you buy your books and start working or getting better at what Kellyanne had been talking about today. Thanks again, Kelly.

Unknown Speaker 24:04
Thank you.

george grombacher 24:05
Finally, till next time, remember, do your part by doing your best

george grombacher 16:00
So if I want my iPhone, and my Tesla and my Bitcoin to work, we need to get the metal out of the ground.

Pierre Leveille 16:07
Absolutely. Without it, we cannot do it.

george grombacher 16:13
Why? Why is there a Why has production been going down.

Pierre Leveille 16:21
Because the large mines that are producing most of the copper in the world, the grades are going down slowly they’re going there, they’re arriving near the end of life. So and of life of mines in general means less production. And in the past, at least 15 years, the exploration expenditure for copper were pretty low, because the price of copper was low. And when the price is low, companies are tending to not invest more so much in exploration, which is what we see today. It’s it’s, it’s not the way to look at it. Because nobody 15 years ago was able to predict that there would be a so massive shortage, or it’s so massive demand coming. But in the past five years, or let’s say since the since 10 years, we have seen that more and more coming. And then the by the time you react start exploring and there’s more money than then ever that is putting in put it in expression at the moment for copper at least. And what we see is that the it takes time, it could take up to 2025 years between the time you find a deposit that it gets in production. So but but the year the time is counted. So it’s it’s very important to so you will see company reopening old mines, what it will push also, which is not bad, it will force to two, it will force to find a it will force to find ways of recalibrating customer, you know the metals, that will be more and more important.

george grombacher 18:07
So finding, okay, so for lack of a better term recycling metals that are just sitting around somewhere extremely important. Yeah. And then going and going back to historic minds that maybe for lack of technology, or just lack of will or reasons, but maybe now because there’s such a demand, there’s an appetite to go back to those.

Pierre Leveille 18:33
Yes, but there will be a lot of failures into that for many reasons. But the ones that will be in that will resume mining it’s just going to be a short term temporary solution. No it’s it’s not going to be you need to find deposit that will that will operate 50 years you know at least it’s 25 to 50 years at least and an old mind that you do in production in general it’s less than 10 years.

george grombacher 19:03
Got it. Oh there we go. Up here. People are ready for your difference making tip What do you have for them

Pierre Leveille 19:14
You mean an investment or

george grombacher 19:17
whatever you’re into, you’ve got so much life experience with raising a family and doing business all over the world and having your kids go to school in Africa so a tip on copper or whatever you’re into.

Pierre Leveille 19:34
But there’s two things I like to see and I was telling my children many times and I always said you know don’t focus on what will bring you specifically money don’t think of Getting Rich. Think of doing what you what you like, what you feel your your your your your, you know you have been born to do so use your most you skills, do what you like, do what you wet well, and good things will happen to you. And I can see them grow in their life. And I can tell you that this is what happens. And sometimes you have setback like I had recently. But if we do things properly, if we do things that we like, and we liked that project, we were very passionate about that project, not only me, all my team, and if we do things properly, if we do things correctly, good things will happen. And we will probably get the project back had to go forward or we will find another big project that will be the launch of a new era. So that’s my most important tip in life. Do what you like, do it with your best scale and do it well and good things will happen.

george grombacher 20:49
Pierre Leveille 21:03
Thank you. I was happy to be with you to today.

george grombacher 21:06
Damn, tell us the websites and where where people can connect and find you.

Pierre Leveille 21:13
The it’s Deep South resources.com. So pretty simple.

george grombacher 21:18
Perfect. Well, if you enjoyed this as much as I did show up here your appreciation and share today’s show with a friend who also appreciate good ideas, go to deep south resources, calm and learn all about what they’re working on and track their progress.

Pierre Leveille 21:32
Thanks. Thanks, have a nice day.

george grombacher 21:36
And until next time, keep fighting the good fight. We’re all in this together.